Why nerf a PVE Game

[Asprin]

DEVS honestly you keep missing the point by listening to streamers the game is supposed to be fun OP is fun you don't have anything else to offer so why nerf anything rise the weaker mods to the level of the fun stuff and keep the game fun?

[Darth_Angeal]

1) It doesn´t matter if a game has PvE or PvP, balancing is needed in both directions to prevent games from being either braindead boring or too hard.

2) The most "nerfs" are not really nerfs. They´ve been fixes for stuff which bugged out and didn´t work as intended.

3) Not everyone wants to be "OP", nor is it fun to everyone. A lot of players get bored immediately if a game is a no-brainer and Outriders is already way too easy with a decent build. Pressing one-button to wipe the whole map or one-shotting bosses is far away from being fun. Not even the rewards can be named rewards, because it´s not rewarding without atleast a little challenge.
So far please stop talking like the majority wants a braindead grinder with big numbers. That´s definately not the case.

4) This is probably the MOST IMPORTANT one in case of Outriders:

You want to feel overpowered, because otherwise you don´t have fun? There is an easy solution:

LOWER THE TIER-LEVEL!

It´s so easy to keep the game attractive for yourself without killing the experience for others. Lower the tier and you can be Mr. Unbreakable all day long.
So what´s the issue not doing that? The 1 or 2% less chance on a mythic legendary? What is more worth... fun or that little dropchance? Since you´ll have a faster clear it doesn´t even matter in kind of effectiveness.

So please, stop complaining like only "your fun" counts, when there are already options to keep this game attractive for 1000´s of different players thanks to 40 apoc-tiers. (And maybe stop relaying on obviously broken stuff and exploits.)

[ZTempest]

I agree somewhat with Darth_Angeal. I get far more enjoyment from a mission when I have to think my way through it and use all of my skills. Most players like being challenged that way, because it also opens up idea for better builds, experimentation with skills you don't typically use, etc. The fixes the last patch provided opened the door for something other than a min-max cookie cutter type of deal, where just one build with certain sets of mods were considered the "best" option. Now, there is a lot more variety to some extent, and exploring other builds and mods is worth a player's time.

Also, I understand where you are coming from with the PvE statement..but this game is actually PvE with Co-Op. It is not fun to jump into a co-op group and have one guy instantly one-shot a boss. The fun with Co-Op is to be part of a team, where everyone contributes and gets their shots in. Before the fixes, there were certain classes that were way too powerful with certain builds and mods that would take the fun out of co-op games. With these changes, those players now have a better, more challenging game...and that is the fun in playing Outriders -- for the challenges.

[Darth_Angeal]

Originally posted by ZTempest:

but this game is actually PvE with Co-Op. It is not fun to jump into a co-op group and have one guy instantly one-shot a boss.

Agree on this, just wanted to add some other issue with the game itself.

It´s meant to be a coop-game, but it clearly isn´t.

You can play with others on the same map, but you don´t really play together. I´m convinced the most players just jump into random groups to have the benefit of a rezz instead of playing for a coop-feeling.

Playing with friends isn´t much different. It´s more like silence or playing half-way braindead meanwhile talking about the usual RL stuff. There is just no tactical play involved other than "I take the left / right pillar.".

You can´t even combine builds that great unless all play a firepower build and e.g. a Techno plants a turret with bullet-recover. Or you´re a pyro and make use of X damage against toxic, cause the techno uses blighted rounds. But is it that great? No it´s not, because there are better or even options to maximize your build.

On top the game doesn´t even have mechanics involved or offers a real challenge. Imagine a Trickster would play the Slow Trap - Set, because it´s needed for the group that you can´t die in it. Or Techno needs huge buffs on the heal-skill to keep the group alive. There are a bunch of options, but the game doesn´t force them. Whoever says "Hey guys, i´m gonna play more support-orientative!" just hinders the group from progressing.
And trying to combinate the builds within a group of 3 is an absolute waste of time since the whole build will not work solo or with randoms. Just with that one group and compared to standard-builds, you may save 1 minute per run, wow...

[Master Blaster]

Originally posted by Asprin:

DEVS honestly you keep missing the point by listening to streamers the game is supposed to be fun OP is fun you don't have anything else to offer so why nerf anything rise the weaker mods to the level of the fun stuff and keep the game fun?

tbh, when posted here, it only gets read by the yes flunkies who keep defending "balancing" and leave the major issues untouched...and you are 100% right about only having streamers, ambassador's and top players ear ...as they stay in the Outriders discord to make sure..then the yes flunkies all agree with them and wohlah...if you want to be heard go there, although it is rough as they will gang up on you but some are and its good to see them speak the actual truth...well some are that havent deleted the game already....and this flunkie that keeps telling you to stop complaining and its not about having fun is one of the main yes flunkies...so dont worry about his crap.

[Viper]

If you can be OP. Then yes balancing is necessary. That is so boring. If you can 1 shot a boss. Then I have completelly lost interest in the game..sorry.

[Xariann]

I have raised a lot of criticism about Worldslayer - being a huge fan of the base game. And I am really enjoying this new patch. As it was before, levelling through Apoc tiers was just frustrating as you never had enough resources to keep up with your gear - and I don't think the Apoc tiers did anything to help with build exploration like the devs wanted. Now you can farm enough resources to level up gear.

It feels more balanced, but it's not like they cut huge a amount of grind from the levelling process. It will still require time. Also doing expeditions and getting more worthwhile drops is better, you don't feel you are tramlined into the trial. They might not give you as much as the trial still, but they can be cleared quite fast.

A lot of people also want to have fun with multiple classes, and with super long grind it just puts people off doing that.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

it's a complete waste of time and resources. It's a Co-Op game. Period. So no it doesn't need the type of balancing by any means that you would for competitive. You could spend that time doing something like...oh I dunno...creating actual meaningful content rather than a loop grind.

You aren't doing jack by balancing because people are always going to find a way to cheat and there's no escaping that. And even if they aren't cheating you have the meta builders who are always going to find the next best build. It's absolutely stupid to continue chasing the outliers.

If you don't want to deal with meta builds then avoid them. If you don't want to play with people doing this then don't. Dropping from a party is completely possible or just play with friends. Why do you care about what's balanced unless you are a min maxer? Just play the damn game and have fun.

Blaster has the right of it but the thing is let the fanbois fan they aren't going to change the rating of the game and that's a clear indicator of how the player base feels because those ratings tell the same story no matter which ones you look at.

[Darth_Angeal]

Originally posted by Vixzian:

it's a complete waste of time and resources. It's a Co-Op game. Period. So no it doesn't need the type of balancing by any means that you would for competitive. You could spend that time doing something like...oh I dunno...creating actual meaningful content rather than a loop grind.

You aren't doing jack by balancing because people are always going to find a way to cheat and there's no escaping that. And even if they aren't cheating you have the meta builders who are always going to find the next best build. It's absolutely stupid to continue chasing the outliers.

If you don't want to deal with meta builds then avoid them. If you don't want to play with people doing this then don't. Dropping from a party is completely possible or just play with friends. Why do you care about what's balanced unless you are a min maxer? Just play the damn game and have fun.

Blaster has the right of it but the thing is let the fanbois fan they aren't going to change the rating of the game and that's a clear indicator of how the player base feels because those ratings tell the same story no matter which ones you look at.

Any game needs balancing and it has been said multiple times why. Even if you go so far to play with solo or with friends only, should you ignore half the games possibilities because they´re either to broken af and last in a boring game or handicap yourself and making it impossible to win? That´s nonsense.
Stuff needs to be in average somehow viable. The best builds weren´t even the best so far. They just abused exploits, which never were intended to be that strong.

And again... if you really need that "OP-feeling",

go and lower the tier?

What´s the issue with that? Moaning like others but not being open to use the given game-settings... so what?

Wanting a game to be balanced hasn´t anything to do with being a fanboy anyway. Even board and card games are balanced and follow strict rules. You won´t find any good game out there which is not somehow balanced in its core.

But hey... maybe you and Blaster should share a roam to moan about the devs actually do their job instead of just LOWERING THE TIER to get your feeling of being a superhero.
Maybe you guys should play the damn game and have fun or leave it as it is if you´re so upset about a change you can avoid pretty easily... yes easily BY LOWERING THE TIER, y know?!

That ignorance is insane... don´t call yourself a gamer please if you just want to "pew pew, hühü, me super!".

(The game didn´t even become unplayable or something. You can´t oneshot bosses now, instead you need 10, maybe 20s for them? I highly doubt you struggle with adds, if so you aren´t good anyway. The game is easy af with any decent build. Way too easy for what was promised.)

[Darth_Angeal]

Oh btw... i guess all who cry about nerfs played some broken build and are of course upset now and can´t find another build, because it´s all they ever wanted and loved to play.

What if this build would´ve been trash from beginning?

Would you´ve played it?

Or would you´ve moan that the build is too weak and needs buff?

Or would you´ve moan that other builds need a nerf, because it´s boring to watch other players one-shotting everything meanwhile lacking behind?

Or would you´ve dropped it for a meta-build?

I´m pretty sure the answers are obvious since the most of you definately copy & pasted meta builds from other players.

[Master Blaster]

Originally posted by Vixzian:

it's a complete waste of time and resources. It's a Co-Op game. Period. So no it doesn't need the type of balancing by any means that you would for competitive. You could spend that time doing something like...oh I dunno...creating actual meaningful content rather than a loop grind.

You aren't doing jack by balancing because people are always going to find a way to cheat and there's no escaping that. And even if they aren't cheating you have the meta builders who are always going to find the next best build. It's absolutely stupid to continue chasing the outliers.

If you don't want to deal with meta builds then avoid them. If you don't want to play with people doing this then don't. Dropping from a party is completely possible or just play with friends. Why do you care about what's balanced unless you are a min maxer? Just play the damn game and have fun.

Blaster has the right of it but the thing is let the fanbois fan they aren't going to change the rating of the game and that's a clear indicator of how the player base feels because those ratings tell the same story no matter which ones you look at.

you are right...there was one class that could with the absolute right build and player could one shot a boss somethimes...very, very small percentage all the time..this is the thing that flunkies keep coming in here say..yes balanced needed thing at this....dont listen, they are just yes flunkies for outriders discord...I see them all the time especially the one that keep's call players names above me...and yes players would look at builds and just go to the build drive thru and say..."1 meta build please" and do no work or hours to actually get something resembling something like it to help them have fun but mostly players would only have paritals builds like it.

Listen i see it every day the interactions and who gets heard and the yes men that feed it...this game is quickly becoming a game for streamers, top players and flunkies that want to emulate them....average players are leaving in droves after this third strike....lots of them were starting to have fun after the first patch and dlc price then BAM here comes another whammy.

If you really want to be heard go to Outriders discord, they do not have a clue what is actually going on here cause there are to many telling them the truth about the gameplay, all you are getting is the yes flunkies flying over here to try and keep squashing truths.

this is a coop game that is fast becoming not one.

[Asprin]

Every game that is defended by the few dies remember that. I like this game's concept and want it to survive because it has so much potential. I understand the defenders all 100 of you who play techno the game can be hard as it needs to be if there was more to do than trial and grinding for gear with the right mods but there isn't so the fact that they keep making you weaker (and no I'm not talking about mages rage never used it ) is a quick way to lose your audience. but I digress lest see where we are in September. since the population already dipped on PC by 10K