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Fordítási probléma jelentése
E téma közzétevője a kérdése válaszának jelölt egy hozzászólást.
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I will believe you if you tell me why its one of the best fighting games of all time. But you can't do that without referencing other fighting games in the 2d and 3d genre, gotta take into account martial arts fighters and weapons based fighters too.
I want to like the game just as much as you apparently do. Not even bullshitting. I just don't like it that much. I like it enough to play it with friends. I like it enough to go through arcade mode every now and then. I think of it like Smash Bros. Its a party game with a little bit of complexity for those who look to see everything on offer. But it's not golden like Frieza. Not to me.
You must have only read the last paragraph in the original post if you didn't gather what I felt I was missing from the sarcastic questioning rant that makes up the majority of the discussion. Do you want me to give you a list of reasons why this game isn't even a shining example of everything that it does offer in my opinion? I can, but only if you really want it.
You hit the nail on the head when you say I did no research. But does a guy really need to research games? I don't have that kind of time and I don't want to come into the game knowing everything there is to know. To me, its a bit like a spoiler. I've never even owned a strategy guide. I like to get in, get lost, find ♥♥♥♥ out by just playing and just get better that way but I guess its the wrong way. So I suppose even worse is to come out and admit you're disappointed in what you're finding when you take such an approach. After all, the info is out there and it is free.
My main fault was brand loyalty. I got it because ArcSys was involved and I liked the way it looked. The game looks and sounds amazing. Does it not? I'm not even a real DBZ fan. I've watched it sporadically and played most of the DBZ games. All my friends were hyping this up. (I play locally, mostly. I have irl friends and I burned out of online gaming because I don't care for getting harassed with rage messages because people didn't like playing Jin, Litchi or Rachel to counter Hazama.)
So, buyers remorse is on me. But I'm stubborn. I don't want the remorse. So what do I do? I'm still here playing the game, learning whatever there is to learn about the few characters I like to play. Kid Buu, Gohan, Teen Gohan, Trunks, Piccolo, Tien. That's about what I limit myself to and its all interest based.
Whats a complete system? Its nothing because your making ♥♥♥♥ up.
Lol your still clueless?
Whats the matter, can't explain your simplistic ideas of what you think fighters are? Or are you going to state some more nebulous crap and think your actually saying something?
Whats a complete system btw?
Translation: Facts don't matter, feelings matter more - critical thinking is completely optional. Even if I have all the information available, I would rather go by my feelings rather than verify and evaluate because that actually takes introspection.
It's fine to want to enjoy and explore a game, but if you're going to evaluate it beyond a simple knee jerk response you generally do due diligence and that's obviously something that you skipped out - it's dishonest and pretty lazy.
Did it ever occur to you that you simply don't like the game because you're projecting? Or perhaps there's just something fundamentally different that you happen to not enjoy like how some people don't like bitter foods or spicy foods? And that it's all just preference rather than the fault of a game?
There are some examples of complete systems such as the board game of Go -- very ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ simple and with high complexity (if we're counting permutations and the number of meta shfits / openings to games like checkers).
Most fighting games aren't since most of the rosters can still be stuffed with more fighters.
But what did you honestly expect from him? Language like that is pretty indicative of a person who isn't educated (or if he/she is then they're being lazy and dishonest). The person doesn't have the design chops, the vocabulary, or the current capacity to actually walk through their opinions.
There's no doubt there's something fundamentally different about the game I don't enjoy. That much was spectacularly obvious. How can you find fault in a game without an opposing preference?
What's dishonest about starting a discussion about not being happy with the first 6 hours of a game? Its only a fighter. 6 hours is enough to notice some things. Sounds fair to me. Maybe I'll start a 24hr mark discussion with some altered opinions but I don't think my opinion will change too much. I hope it does. It did about Final Fantasy 15. I love to be wrong about games and find out that I should have liked them a lot more. That's the best ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ feeling, not liking something and then warming up to it and appreciating it for all its merits and ignoring where it falls flat. Like craft beers.
Maybe I'll try some online matches and not DC every single time? This is hardly an evaluation. It's getting treated like a review and its merely a discussion of an opinion based upon a 6 hour observation, most of which was spent in arcade and practice modes because the online was just...I dunno. The online portion was just not ideal. Keeping a long story short. I know I'm not the only one who had connection issues.
Most of my questions on this forum are rhetorical because I know damn well they aren't going to response with the appropriate answer. Its a game for me, I pick apart what they say wait until they claim something and then persistently ask them to explain it and watch them basically collapse as they get frustrated.
Like that flickshot guy, dude made the mistake of claiming there were scientific studies comparing FPS and Fighters. And when he was called out on it he basically broke down and went insane.
I'm gonna give talking to you a chance because you must have some info I want since you're still buzzing around here typing at me or whoever is backing you up or what have you. The only question you asked was what I thought a complete fighting system is. You just came in making assumptions that all I do is lose when in reality I've never played an online match against anyone but like, 3 friends. They're not that good.
There's only one I can't beat and he had this game at launch. I don't care, I take no pride in beating up a hundred 2nd graders. I need opponents at skill level or better than me to feel like I've done or learned how to really apply anything.
This discussion was created at my 6 hour mark. But more importantly, I'm going to be a while I play a few arcade matches, maybe try online and hope EAC doesn't think I'm a cheater. Then I'll get back to you and explain in full detail what I think a complete fighting system is but its going to be a long, nebulous read. But I know you can read because you're a star student, I can tell. But I've been in this discussion typing at people for too long. I just logged on to play some more DBZ tbh but I saw I had 11 more comments.
Btw, I said the guy "must have only read the last paragraph" meaning he read nothing else but that paragraph mentioning GG and BB.
And out of all the crap you just wrote, you still haven't explain ♥♥♥♥. Its really telling, all your disjointed thoughts, your complete inability to make a coherent argument. You are staling, but you go on ahead and write your ideas down on what exactly the problems with DBZF are. But please try and form sentences that explain things rather then state things.
The way you articulate your thoughts is really really bad. "I like cake." << this is you. What about the cake do you like? "I really like this cake its so scrumptious and good!" << You. What about the cake do you like. "Its so good and tasty I could eat it all day." << YOU!
The cake is moist, it has a slight sweetness, and the icing has a delicious flavor of strawberry that goes so well with the cake. << an appropriate answer.
You have a problem with reiteration statements you have made without going into depth with said statements, but your next reiteration is usually long and peppered with long words to try distract that there is nothing of merit there.
Are you serious? Can you please think about what you write?
By doing what ANY rational person would ask you to do: quantify and qualify. Once you do so and your interlocutors accept your criteria then it ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ doesn't matter what your preferences are so long as the discussion falls within those parameters.
You treat your dislike of the game like any other game; you deconstruct it and try to beat it.
What you don't do is scrub out and try to autocombo your way through this issue.Then cry when you get exposed for it.
There's nothing wrong with starting a discussion, but there's everything wrong with how you did it if you want an honest discussion to explore the game. Look at your opening post and then compare it to any academic forum or any professional stand up where fellow designers are getting around to discuss an issue.
Here's a link that will help you shape your arguments so people can actually discuss it: http://www.iep.utm.edu/val-snd/
Furthermore, let's talk about your time spent. Six hours you have not gained anywhere near enough information about the game ESPECIALLY since you decide to ignore the community as a whole; your sample size is incredibly small and only reflective of your demographic (and by extension your environment).
Six hours is enough to make a knee jerk impression, but to call it anything other than that (unless you have managed to deconstruct the majority of the game) is laughable; most professional game reviewers spend more time combing over the game than that and that's a really low standard to adhere to.
But here's what you can say.. the game has obvious technical flaws; servers being unstable, connections being frustrating, the lobby UX/UI isn't as streamlined etc. You know why you can say those things? Because what you're measuring and its criteria has been clearly defined.
Hence why, in an honest discussion, people define the scope of the situation.
Mostly in relevance to this thread, I think coming from games like Blazblue and Guilty Gear it is pretty fair to feel like things are far more simple and streamlined, because, in a sense, they are, at least in the idea that many characters can be played decently with more or less the same style of play and combo structure with some minor tweaks for various supers/specials that act a tad different (Android 18's lvl 1 vs Goku's teleport lvl 1, if you immediately do the super with 18, you'll miss, if you teleport super almost immediately with Goku, you'll land it.). On a mechanical level, I truly don't think this game will match something akin to Guiltry Gear Xrd, but that is far from a bad thing, and the fact that GG is a highly complex, diverse game is far from bad itself as well, just different tastes for different strokes.
If anything, in all honesty, this game I feel should be treated more or less like an improved/altered UMvC3, the gameplay is fairly similar yet a bit toned down in how fast and crazy things can be... while still being an insane game as far as just how many different scenario's one can find themselves in due to tons of rogue elements like assists, Z-flashes, super dashes, and all the other things that just make this game over the top, and in my opinion, in excellent fashion... then again its basically just what I wanted in MvCI, an enjoyable roster albeit small, and crazy, fun mechanics for a 3 v 3 tag game, and honestly, I think a lot of the players who are highly enjoying this game and seeing the depth to it are people who enjoy the VS series, and are perhaps even a little let down by MvCI as I am, considering there is about 2 characters in that whole game I am interested in learning/playing.
Of course, that's not to say this game hasn't had a good few speed bumps preventing it from reaching the upper echelon of say a 10/10, for starters the menu system itself feels pretty bizarre and limits the game greatly, something that was painfully made aware the first couple days just after release, though it is less of a problem now. The frequent online disconnects many players had before the maintenance, some of which are still having those issues now, is never a good sign either albeit being something I personally have encountered rarely. In truth, the whole online infrastructure of the game is pretty mind boggling, I like that ArcSys was trying something different, and it was nowhere NEAR as bad as other games that have tried Lobby styled menus in the past (Fable 3 anyone?), but it still seems like a bizarre design choice considering how well they have been doing with Blazblue/Guilty Gear.
All in all, to sum up most of my feelings, this game is generally good, much above average compared to other fighting games out on the market, and for me, is damn near perfection since its combines one of my favorite franchies growing up, igniting a new passion for it, while also implenting my FAVORITE style of fighting game, 3v3 tag ala MvC, particularly MvC3 which is a game I spent waaaay more time on then I would like to admit. However, its definitely had its missteps here and there, and will probably even have a few more down the line, particularly if the DLC datamine turns out to be real (do we really need base Goku/Vegeta?), but as far as the gameplay goes itself, I'd say give this game a few months, if not till EVO, a lot of the crazier things in this game are only being tapped into just now, particularly the wild combos and ridiculous synergies/combinations of characters are just barely being tapped I feel, in a manner similar to UMvC3.... and its a great feeling to think of just how different, and diverse combos could wind up being among the cast in the future, let alone more defined play styles outside of the basic ones showing up even in intermediate/advanced play right now. All in all, have high hopes for the game, and will definitely be here for the long run, my biggest gripes with the game on a gameplay level would really just boil down to having only one assist per character, would have loved to see different types for each character based on their specials, and the lack of a push block is something I personally dislike being so used to MvC3, but in truth I just need to learn and better integrate the reflect appropriately. Oh, and allow the swapping of the starting character before matches online and not only in local/offline play, why this even needs to be brought up is rather bizarre in my opinion... lets add onto the mind games already present in game!
Not... to rule 'em all.