Anybody else thinks this game should have Guilty Gear's negative penalty?

[StringKiller]

I believe right now jumping back over and over is the most annoyingly effective tactic there is. It is true that it is not the best one by any means, but It's really damn annoying for sure XD.

I think the negative penalty system that Guilty Gear has (you lose all your meter if you jump back / dash back all the time for a certain period of time) could do very good to this game.

Thougts?

[StringKiller]

The thing is, catching an oponent in the air in DBFZ is easier if you use super dash, if you don't is just like in Guilty Gear, where you would approach the jumping rival using an air to air attack or an anti air from the ground. Guilty Gear also has more realiable air throws and the oponent has to use JD if he wants to block an attack from the ground.

In DBFZ if you super dash a constantly jump blocking oponent you will not get him down to the ground or be able to punish him reliably for constantly doing so and the air block strings are not nearly as dangerous as grounded ones. That makes jumping back and defending constantly the most effective way of defense in intermediate to low levels of play, so there's a lot of people currently playing exclusively like that since in order to get them to the ground you have to catch them with a reliable air combo that takes them to the ground or a throw (I use 21 so I find her command grabs a good way of stoping this).

What strikes me as odd is that air defense is so much stronger than grounded defense in a neutral situation, but that might be my biased opinion since I hate this tactic more than constant projectile zoning XD, the only thing more annoying for me than this is 16's oki set ups XD.

[Apathy]

Kublain Khan původně napsal:

Apathy původně napsal:

So use your other tools.

? You don't understand how fighting games work so your reply is disregarded, unless you can state these "other tools"

Bait the jump in and back dash, call an assist, go air to air with a normal, fire a beam, use your throw, if your character has any normals that are good as AA's try one of them, if your character has a special with AA properties use it, vanish, etc. I didn't say all of this because someone that actually knows how fighting games works will know these because they're basic fundamentals.

[Abhia1majin]

I dont really know what he means by "jumping in" can someone clarify? cause if he means instant air dash into an overhead thats blockable isnt it

[Kublain Khan]

Apathy původně napsal:

Kublain Khan původně napsal:

? You don't understand how fighting games work so your reply is disregarded, unless you can state these "other tools"

Bait the jump in and back dash, call an assist, go air to air with a normal, fire a beam, use your throw, if your character has any normals that are good as AA's try one of them, if your character has a special with AA properties use it, vanish, etc. I didn't say all of this because someone that actually knows how fighting games works will know these because they're basic fundamentals.

None of those options punish you twerp, back dash does what exactly? then we are both mindless jumping in neurtral? amazing, call an assist? again won't punsih mindless jumping, vanish not only takes meter, it's super punishable... unlike jumping, I know anroid 18 can somewhat punish this but that character is lame and he seems to be the only one that can.
The only one in that list that works is the grab however is a bit iffy on hitboxs I swear if you are a little higher than them on the jump it just wiffs and instant punish.

[StringKiller]

Apathy původně napsal:

Kublain Khan původně napsal:

? You don't understand how fighting games work so your reply is disregarded, unless you can state these "other tools"

Bait the jump in and back dash, call an assist, go air to air with a normal, fire a beam, use your throw, if your character has any normals that are good as AA's try one of them, if your character has a special with AA properties use it, vanish, etc. I didn't say all of this because someone that actually knows how fighting games works will know these because they're basic fundamentals.

Jump in and back dash -> he can still keep jumping back and defending
call an assist -> unless the assist is vegeta or a beam assist, he can keep jumping back and defending. he can also double jump beam assists.
air to air -> either you nail down a combo that puts him in the ground or he will still be jumping
fire a beam -> if he defends, he will keep jumping, if you vanish, he can even punish you
throw -> this is the only thing he has to actually look out for
anti airs -> not many characters have reliable ones besides 2H, wich you can't use to take the oponent to the ground.

The point is the oponent can always keep annoyingly jumping back until you commit a mistake trying to throw him or to get him down with an air to air / anti air. I don't know if you ever played with someone who does this kind of stuff but if he also has a solid grounded defense it turns into a ver awkard fight.

[Apathy]

A jump in is where you jump in and attack. Someone chicken blocking is something else. I can't explain what to do if you use terms wrong. The only time you should care about it at all is if they have a life lead. There's no chip in this game. You can't chip anyone at all let alone to death. If they're running they're going to try to zone or bait you in. So if you have the life lead just work on blocking stuff and not being caught. They'll have to come to you eventually. The fact that this game has no chip damage means that zoning isn't as effective as it could be. Meaning you have no real reason to close ground unless you're trying to make up the life difference. You need to adapt and use your tools.

[Maverick]

StringKiller původně napsal:

I believe right now jumping back over and over is the most annoyingly effective tactic there is. It is true that it is not the best one by any means, but It's really damn annoying for sure XD.

I think the negative penalty system that Guilty Gear has (you lose all your meter if you jump back / dash back all the time for a certain period of time) could do very good to this game.

Thougts?

IT already does, but in reverse. If you move forward you get more meter for free. Dashing across the screen is like a free half bar. Also, if you're being jumped away from, just do a grab.

There's just so many WAYS to deal with this that it's already a punishment for being too defensive.

[Alcratz]

neutral in this game is already hectic as ♥♥♥♥ and you want there to be a penalty for being on the defensive? that doesnt seem like a very good idea to me, there are lots of times where you absolutely need to create spacing to have control in neutral, especially for certain characters like 18. i also think a negative penalty is a really lazy way to enforce aggressive gameplay

[Ranmaru Rei]

Apathy původně napsal:

A jump in is where you jump in and attack. Someone chicken blocking is something else. I can't explain what to do if you use terms wrong. The only time you should care about it at all is if they have a life lead. There's no chip in this game. You can't chip anyone at all let alone to death. If they're running they're going to try to zone or bait you in. So if you have the life lead just work on blocking stuff and not being caught. They'll have to come to you eventually. The fact that this game has no chip damage means that zoning isn't as effective as it could be. Meaning you have no real reason to close ground unless you're trying to make up the life difference. You need to adapt and use your tools.

But the game has chip damage for specials and supers. It has no death from chip damage.

[Apathy]

Ranmaru Rei původně napsal:

Apathy původně napsal:

A jump in is where you jump in and attack. Someone chicken blocking is something else. I can't explain what to do if you use terms wrong. The only time you should care about it at all is if they have a life lead. There's no chip in this game. You can't chip anyone at all let alone to death. If they're running they're going to try to zone or bait you in. So if you have the life lead just work on blocking stuff and not being caught. They'll have to come to you eventually. The fact that this game has no chip damage means that zoning isn't as effective as it could be. Meaning you have no real reason to close ground unless you're trying to make up the life difference. You need to adapt and use your tools.

But the game has chip damage for specials and supers. It has no death from chip damage.

Only a handful of attacks chip. The rest don't. You are safe from most fireballs.