Not even worth the climb?

[Ennui]

If I play a player with 700k BP I lose and drop 2k, but I win and gain 1k at most? Elo system doesnt make any fkin sense lol. I gotta beat teams full of AGohans, Android 16s, Vegetas and Goku Blacks just to lose more than I gain fighting higher elo players. Zzzz

[Suntorias]

Yeah, that's how it works. My guess is the system has some hard coded middle value, higher ranked matches end in a net loss, so everyone above it has to have a +50% winrate.

If you're really high up, then match ties will result in a slight loss for both players.

Play better, beat better players. Only way to go higher.

edit: This is a fighting game, there never was any point for climbing to begin with. It's an ok large-scale measurement of how good someone is, in the sense that someone +2-300k BP will most likely beat the first player. Still, ranks mean nothing, tournaments with good players mean something, if it's status we're talking about.

[Ennui]

Nah dude because it doesn't make any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sense regardless. I'll play 510k players (I'm 590, for reference, got dropped from this Majin player) and get 4k+ but i'll get only 1 or 2k from beating players with 100-200k more bp than I have.

It's ridiculous.

At any rate, i don't go to tournies right now, i'm practicing to get higher in bp, but its still a gameplay thing to try and get higher up and it's really obnoxious to grind against meta teams higher ranked than me and not even get positive returns in a 1-1 matchup.

[Suntorias]

It makes sense, because you can't get accidental large boosts from way higher ranks. If you play someone way higher, you can't win much, but you won't lose much either. They still lose like 3 times as much as you though, so even a 1-3 often negates your losses.

[Ennui]

What? No, dude. On average, higher ranks should beat me, accidental wins or not. If i beat a higher rank, I deserve the bp that goes along with it.

Lets flip it. You shouldn't get massive drops from accidental losses either. It makes absolutely -no- sense that a 1-3 against a higher rank should give you a balanced bp return. If you go 1-3 against someone you're saying not only that you should -be- their rank, but you should be significantly -higher- than their rank.

If I beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of someone 1-3, I should get an -absurd- amount of bp and they should -lose- an absurd amount of bp until our bp loss/gain becomes net ~0. That is our bp will be equal and the gains I recieve for beating them should be minimal because we should be 'equal' skill level at the median of our elo if I continue to win and they continue to lose.

[Suntorias]

Okay, let's count a bit: The usual equal rank reward is 3-4k per match. Since this is against an equal skilled opponent, you will often get 3-4k gains from a BO5 if neither of you is far from their current level. Now, suppose each harder match against +200k opponents would give say, a fair amount, like 10k per win. You get a lucky match, maybe a guy is tilted, maybe he plays drunk, maybe he has a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ day, and suddenly you're up 30k. Suppose you get lucky, maybe get the same guy twice(happens at hours when not many are playing). Obviously said good player will try and reclaim the wins, only even more tilted than before, another free 30k.

Our lucky player is now 60k up out of sheer luck, which would've taken him 15-20 net wins against similar skilled opponents. That's about 50-60 at least, if not more. Now if the system is anywhere near accurate(let's suppose that the whole ladder outside our player is static, and perfectly fair), now our lucky player faces way stronger opponents than he did 20 minutes ago, out of 1 lucky encounter. Now, since same scored matches only give or take a "low" 3-4k, our lucky player will now have to lose about 15-20 matches to get back to his rank where they started. As one might expect, most of those 15-20 losses will be happening in a straight row, since at the beginning is where the skill difference would be the largest.

Sad little Timmy would be now sad, and pissed at the game, and the unfair matchmaking, and how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it is that he's getting 10 unbeatable opponents in a row.

This, mind you, even if the matchmaking happened to allocate perfect ranks according to skill. Since no matchmaker can do that, the results in real life would be a horribly wonky system, where players easily gained lucky high bucks, THEN other low level players would easily get THEIR lucky high bucks from those unlucky bad players who are now stuck with their high ranks, even though they definitely don't belong there.

Gradually decreasing rewards as the skill difference gets larger is a great system for weeding out noise in the data. And trust me, nobody wants noise in their matchmaking.

As for the last paragraph, the point is that it's a self-correcting system. Say, the set value is at 400k, then no matter which BP range is currently the most populated, if they keep too many even matches, they will drop down to 400k. Those, who are now suddenly overranked will lose their 400k due to the influx of better players, and thus the fact that they now get a <50% winrate.

Those who are good enough that they can keep up their >50% winrate will keep above that score.

The point is, the designated middle value will always be where the middle skill level of the playerbase is.

[Ennui]

Sorry dude, but you're wrong. A self correcting system is exactly what you said in the first place, not your other paragraphs.

If I were jumping ranks by getting lucky I'd immediately get ♥♥♥♥ on and pushed back down. How do people get stuck in high ranks if you get beat by worse players? Period. You would have more oscillation, perhaps, but you would reach the skill level you should be at based on who you consistently won against.

What's not a self correcting system is slowly locking people into a smaller point range based on a ratio of games played and giving diminishing returns for beating better players.

[Ennui]

If anything, you should get your most linearly increasing rate of returns for beating players at your exact skill level and maintaining roughly a 50-60% win rate.

What doesn't make sense is having a 72% winrate but getting a slowly diminished rate of return as the slope of my bp approaches the top of the graph.

[Inkidu]

Some guy lower than me (not much lower like one rank got 14K BP. So you'll never convince me this game isn't ♥♥♥♥♥♥ in its rewards and ppunishments.