Reminder That Official Servers Are Only 30 Hz

[Shork]

Just in case anyone was wondering why the hitreg is so bad.
It's 60Hz down, 30Hz up. This doesn't go for community servers, but those are either always empty or always full. As far as official servers are concerned, yes, this is literally just Roblox Battlefield, if not worse.

[Knee]

Publicado originalmente por Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH:

No player can meaningfully tell the difference between 30hz & 60hz.

let me tell you, 144hz feels A LOT better than 60hz
get yourself a high refresh rate monitor, it will change your life

[SπdR]

Publicado originalmente por Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH:

No player can meaningfully tell the difference between 30hz & 60hz.

This guy never played Battlefield 4

[Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH]

Publicado originalmente por 󠀡󠀡:

Publicado originalmente por Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH:

No player can meaningfully tell the difference between 30hz & 60hz.

More probably, OP read that servers run at a 30hz tickrate and simply started assigning a bunch of phenomena.



You don't know what you're talking about do you?

Hz refers to frequency of server ticks/frames - how do you get "down and up" ticks?

Try playing at 2 - 4 hz .

30hz is thirty times every 1000 milliseconds - so if your ping is higher than 33ms - it literally doesn't matter.

For reference, the time it takes for a signal to reach the brain from the eyes - and to send a reaction to your motor skills - it's about 200ms. At its highest frequency, the human brain only processes 'frames' at around 24fps

Higher tick does not mean better.

Fanboy spotted.

For someone who says "you don't know what you're talking about" you sure are spitting a lot of bull. But the mere fact that you say that "No player can meaningfully tell the difference between 30hz & 60hz" tells me enough to know you're either a troll or literally not worth any further responses.

Yes you only need to make a baseless claim on the basis of personal incredulity once.

I'm a game dev (code in c++ and use unreal 5), I've got more than a couple of global #1s in FPS to my name. Also was anetwork engineer and worked in telcos for most of my career. So yeah ... I would know.

Doubt you even played the game, let alone tried a community server. The difference is massive and immediate. Maybe YOU can't tell, but most people still have some functioning reflexes. Impossible to not notice the difference in a game where the TTK is like 0.1 seconds. [/quote]


You made all of this up. It's literally, just saying "I don't believe your facts because I am incredulous over and over again.

Now you're expecting me to believe that you have 33ms reaction time? That's physically impossible. The only reason its possible for a computer is because we stack the execution engine right next to the volatile memory - and that's using electrons. Chemical impulses? Lol.

What you're encountering is what's commonly known as the placebo effect. You see the tick rate should be entirely invisible to you - because of interpolation. Your client will run at whatever your GPU outputs to your screen.

It's literally impossible for you to notice the tickrate - the developer doesn't expose it to the player. You're not playing on the server - you're playing on the client.

So yes, you obviously do not have the slightest clue what you're talking about. You clearly don't understand your biology, key performance tuners, cognitive biases, let alone how these technologies (the internet, 3d games) function under the hood. That's fine - as long as you accept that other people do.

You can't see the tickrate because youre looking at your client the whole time. Your client is running asynchronously to the server (sending packets whenever) whilst the server runs each 'turn' every 33ms and hands out the results to everybody. How are you realistically going to be able to isolate the server frames from your client frames? You can't.

It's entirely reasonable to not be aware of all these things - not everyone can know everything about everything - but as somebody who knows a middling amount about this kind of thing from both a competitive and engineering perspective - I personally can tell that all of this is pure placebo.

Finally, people playing Star Citizen and people who played its FPS arena mode were entirely unaware that their sim was running at 2hz. Yes, 2. That shabby spaghetti 2014 code was actually visible - after a while.


But most people were fooled - which proves the point. You can't meaningfully tell the difference.

[Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH]

Publicado originalmente por Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH:

Publicado originalmente por 󠀡󠀡:

Fanboy spotted.


Yes you only need to make a baseless claim on the basis of personal incredulity once.

I'm a game dev (code in c++ and use unreal 5), I've got more than a couple of global #1s in FPS to my name. Also was anetwork engineer and worked in telcos for most of my career. So yeah ... I would know.

Doubt you even played the game, let alone tried a community server. The difference is massive and immediate. Maybe YOU can't tell, but most people still have some functioning reflexes. Impossible to not notice the difference in a game where the TTK is like 0.1 seconds.

You made all of this up. It's literally, just saying "I don't believe your facts because I am incredulous over and over again.

Now you're expecting me to believe that you have 33ms reaction time? That's physically impossible. The only reason its possible for a computer is because we stack the execution engine right next to the volatile memory - and that's using electrons. Chemical impulses? Lol.

What you're encountering is what's commonly known as the placebo effect. You see the tick rate should be entirely invisible to you - because of interpolation. Your client will run at whatever your GPU outputs to your screen.

It's literally impossible for you to notice the tickrate - the developer doesn't expose it to the player. You're not playing on the server - you're playing on the client.

So yes, you obviously do not have the slightest clue what you're talking about. You clearly don't understand your biology, key performance tuners, cognitive biases, let alone how these technologies (the internet, 3d games) function under the hood. That's fine - as long as you accept that other people do.

You can't see the tickrate because youre looking at your client the whole time. Your client is running asynchronously to the server (sending packets whenever) whilst the server runs each 'turn' every 33ms and hands out the results to everybody. How are you realistically going to be able to isolate the server frames from your client frames? You can't.

It's entirely reasonable to not be aware of all these things - not everyone can know everything about everything - but as somebody who knows a middling amount about this kind of thing from both a competitive and engineering perspective - I personally can tell that all of this is pure placebo.

Finally, people playing Star Citizen and people who played its FPS arena mode were entirely unaware that their sim was running at 2hz. Yes, 2. That shabby spaghetti 2014 code was actually visible - after a while.


But most people were fooled - which proves the point. You can't meaningfully tell the difference.

[Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH]

Publicado originalmente por Knee:

Publicado originalmente por Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH:

No player can meaningfully tell the difference between 30hz & 60hz.

let me tell you, 144hz feels A LOT better than 60hz
get yourself a high refresh rate monitor, it will change your life

has anyone actually measured it though? Or is this just like those youtube vids that say they're 1080p in the title but they're not really. I use frameview to look at fps but it doesn't pick up latency in this game.

A couple of misconceptions. The OP is not referring to the refresh rate on your monitor - your GPU (and monitor) are responsible for this. Nor is it referring to latency - these all play a part though regarding 'responsiveness'.

If you're just pointing out that you can tell the difference between say a 144 and 60hz monitor - yeah I've seen - but one would challenge you to spot the difference between 133 and 144hz.

It's also worth mentioning that you can see your monitor - you can't see server ticks - and they execute every 33ms - behind the scenes, on your client running at 144/60/200/we at 10 ping or 100 ping; with client and server side interpolation. Also higher is not necessarily better.

[ollyfox80]

Publicado originalmente por Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH:

Publicado originalmente por Knee:

let me tell you, 144hz feels A LOT better than 60hz
get yourself a high refresh rate monitor, it will change your life

has anyone actually measured it though? Or is this just like those youtube vids that say they're 1080p in the title but they're not really. I use frameview to look at fps but it doesn't pick up latency in this game.

A couple of misconceptions. The OP is not referring to the refresh rate on your monitor - your GPU (and monitor) are responsible for this. Nor is it referring to latency - these all play a part though regarding 'responsiveness'.

If you're just pointing out that you can tell the difference between say a 144 and 60hz monitor - yeah I've seen - but one would challenge you to spot the difference between 133 and 144hz.

It's also worth mentioning that you can see your monitor - you can't see server ticks - and they execute every 33ms - behind the scenes, on your client running at 144/60/200/we at 10 ping or 100 ping; with client and server side interpolation. Also higher is not necessarily better.

got you and on a quick google on server ticks I thought this was a nice explanation (its essentially server side frame rate minus any rendering system) -

"A single update of a game simulation is known as a tick. The rate at which the simulation is run on a server is referred often to as the server's tickrate; this is essentially the server equivalent of a client's frame rate, absent any rendering system."

But we are saying it's not going to make any noticeable difference "if your ping is higher than 33ms - it literally doesn't matter" ?

[BaсилийCaнтехник :)]

So many fanboys of this game are just plain dumb.
OP mention refresh rate of the server, and they assume it's fps n call them dum
Yeah the *it's basically roblox* is real, on a part of the current community.

I mentioned previously on forum, why don't devs use steam updates/devlog to communicate with the players.
Cuz obviously if u are using discord as sole source of information regarding your game u are delusional.

I give this game 2-4 months and the online will drop below 10k. If not sooner.

[ollyfox80]

Publicado originalmente por BaсилийCaнтехник :):

So many fanboys of this game are just plain dumb.
OP mention refresh rate of the server, and they assume it's fps n call them dum :winter2019joyfultearsyul:
Yeah the *it's basically roblox* is real, on a part of the current community.

I mentioned previously on forum, why don't devs use steam updates/devlog to communicate with the players.
Cuz obviously if u are using discord as sole source of information regarding your game u are delusional.

I give this game 2-4 months and the online will drop below 10k. If not sooner.

the op also mentioned "It's 60Hz down, 30Hz up" so

I suspect its a load of hot air and the official servers are fine "it literally doesn't matter"

[Shork]

Been trying to double check how up to date the tickrate issue is with the latest version.
Thus far I've been just getting the usual confirmation from the once most dedicated players (who are all now tired of the game as well) as well as the massive mismatch between the download and upload sequence of the in-game stats (you can enable network statistics). It seems to vary even more depending on whether you are merely running or shooting, meaning it scales dynamically...well, lets just say that's one of the major downsides for this game being technically able to do 127vs127. Whether that's an experience of quality, that's rather arguable.

Seems like super bullets and Co. are becoming more common on community servers as well, so maybe that's no longer a safe workaround either. That definitely felt better prior to the latest update.

Publicado originalmente por ollyfox80:

But we are saying it's not going to make any noticeable difference "if your ping is higher than 33ms - it literally doesn't matter" ?

It definitely makes a difference, yeah.
He didn't even manage to read my text and assumed I claimed to have inhuman reaction times. You know, just conveniently dropped any shred common sense to attempt to sound smart. He either actually believes that statement or is just a blatant troll. Just look at those arrogant remarks: "That's fine - as long as you accept that other people do." ... "as somebody who knows a middling amount about this kind of thing from both a competitive and engineering perspective" ... you know one got no credibility when they gotta evoke a background that no one can verify anyway.

Publicado originalmente por BaсилийCaнтехник :):

So many fanboys of this game are just plain dumb.
OP mention refresh rate of the server, and they assume it's fps n call them dum :winter2019joyfultearsyul:
Yeah the *it's basically roblox* is real, on a part of the current community.

I mentioned previously on forum, why don't devs use steam updates/devlog to communicate with the players.
Cuz obviously if u are using discord as sole source of information regarding your game u are delusional.

I give this game 2-4 months and the online will drop below 10k. If not sooner.

Pretty much. People were unhappy with the latest Battlefield, so this one came in to monopolize that discontent. And it's just really damn easy to please the majority when your audience reaches down to basically broke 9 y/o who couldn't possibly run a modern BF on their devices, nor possess a console. The roblox tier audience certainly got plenty players ready to jump at anything.
The Discord reflects that. When I was still there...well, let's just say it was not a good place. A public Discord server, centered around a game, a game that's basically Roblox Battlefield. You can imagine the mental anguish. Had they not banned me for arbitrary reasons that weren't even my doing (you're not allowed to put checkmarks on statements that the moderation doesn't agree with btw), I would have eventually left on my own. Or just lurked for the game news and updates, which they conveniently only share there.

[BaсилийCaнтехник :)]

Publicado originalmente por 󠀡󠀡:

Been trying to double check how up to date the tickrate issue is with the latest version.
Thus far I've been just getting the usual confirmation from the once most dedicated players (who are all now tired of the game as well) as well as the massive mismatch between the download and upload sequence of the in-game stats (you can enable network statistics). It seems to vary even more depending on whether you are merely running or shooting, meaning it scales dynamically...well, lets just say that's one of the major downsides for this game being technically able to do 127vs127. Whether that's an experience of quality, that's rather arguable.

Seems like super bullets and Co. are becoming more common on community servers as well, so maybe that's no longer a safe workaround either. That definitely felt better prior to the latest update.

Publicado originalmente por ollyfox80:

But we are saying it's not going to make any noticeable difference "if your ping is higher than 33ms - it literally doesn't matter" ?

It definitely makes a difference, yeah.
He didn't even manage to read my text and assumed I claimed to have inhuman reaction times. You know, just conveniently dropped any shred common sense to attempt to sound smart. He either actually believes that statement or is just a blatant troll. Just look at those arrogant remarks: "That's fine - as long as you accept that other people do." ... "as somebody who knows a middling amount about this kind of thing from both a competitive and engineering perspective" ... you know one got no credibility when they gotta evoke a background that no one can verify anyway.

Publicado originalmente por BaсилийCaнтехник :):

So many fanboys of this game are just plain dumb.
OP mention refresh rate of the server, and they assume it's fps n call them dum
Yeah the *it's basically roblox* is real, on a part of the current community.

I mentioned previously on forum, why don't devs use steam updates/devlog to communicate with the players.
Cuz obviously if u are using discord as sole source of information regarding your game u are delusional.

I give this game 2-4 months and the online will drop below 10k. If not sooner.

Pretty much. People were unhappy with the latest Battlefield, so this one came in to monopolize that discontent. And it's just really damn easy to please the majority when your audience reaches down to basically broke 9 y/o who couldn't possibly run a modern BF on their devices, nor possess a console. The roblox tier audience certainly got plenty players ready to jump at anything.
The Discord reflects that. When I was still there...well, let's just say it was not a good place. A public Discord server, centered around a game, a game that's basically Roblox Battlefield. You can imagine the mental anguish. Had they not banned me for arbitrary reasons that weren't even my doing (you're not allowed to put checkmarks on statements that the moderation doesn't agree with btw), I would have eventually left on my own. Or just lurked for the game news and updates, which they conveniently only share there.

Yuck, sounds like a toxic place indeed.

[Shork]

Publicado originalmente por BaсилийCaнтехник :):

Yuck, sounds like a toxic place indeed.

The peak was when I got warned for calling someone "French".
They won't top the moderation team of THE FINALS who banned me for inquiring (via ModMail) about being warned for saying "♥♥♥♥", that's just absolute peak, but it still goes to show how arbitrary they are.
Worth mentioning that wasting hours on helping randos with tech support did not yield any favors. It's all pain, no gain. Just like this game and the process of supporting it.

Again, I've been with this crap since July 2022. Some others have been with it since 2016...I am glad I hadn't been around for that long. What a major letdown that would have been.

[ollyfox80]

Publicado originalmente por 󠀡󠀡:

Publicado originalmente por BaсилийCaнтехник :):

Yuck, sounds like a toxic place indeed.

The peak was when I got warned for calling someone "French". :pfff:
They won't top the moderation team of THE FINALS who banned me for inquiring (via ModMail) about being warned for saying "♥♥♥♥", that's just absolute peak, but it still goes to show how arbitrary they are.
Worth mentioning that wasting hours on helping randos with tech support did not yield any favors. It's all pain, no gain. Just like this game and the process of supporting it.

Again, I've been with this crap since July 2022. Some others have been with it since 2016...I am glad I hadn't been around for that long. What a major letdown that would have been.

I'm trying to come at this with an open mind and learn. You mention upload and download again "download and upload sequence" and how is that related to server ticks? sequence? you mean your connection to the server is likely the issue not the server tick rate. Here for example read this which sort of says what matey said - https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/2gxgmb/tickrates/

[ollyfox80]

"I've been just getting the usual confirmation from the once most dedicated players" - really and who are they? Facts is all we care about not opinions you read in forums

[Shork]

Publicado originalmente por ollyfox80:

I'm trying to come at this with an open mind and learn. You mention upload and download again "download and upload sequence" and how is that related to server ticks? sequence? you mean your connection to the server is likely the issue not the server tick rate. Here for example read this which sort of says what matey said - https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/2gxgmb/tickrates/

No, my connection is perfectly fine. Unless the game is the only thing that has any issues and doesn't even recognize that itself. In which case, we'd still be back at the game being garbage.
All the information I can gather myself currently is from the network statistics in-game. Which sadly isn't as detailed as one would hope it to be.

Publicado originalmente por ollyfox80:

"I've been just getting the usual confirmation from the once most dedicated players" - really and who are they? Facts is all we care about not opinions you read in forums

It doesn't matter. It's players who have been around longer than either of us and were able to dig deeper into this. Maybe Goim can give me more info when he wakes up, since he's been tinkering with the server stuff the most.
I don't think a poorly received and extremely outdated reddit post is any more credible anyway. Like, cmon...we're magnitudes past the bandwidth requirements for this.

[AnvilHouse]

Publicado originalmente por 󠀡󠀡:

No, my connection is perfectly fine. Unless the game is the only thing that has any issues and doesn't even recognize that itself. In which case, we'd still be back at the game being garbage.
All the information I can gather myself currently is from the network statistics in-game. Which sadly isn't as detailed as one would hope it to be.

I don't see any supporting info you give that your network connection is perfectly fine other than your word. Provide some shots of a network monitor, grab a packet sniffer, do something that supports your claim it is just their contracted servers.

The burden of proof is on you. I have talked to plenty of people that haven't had these server issues since early access launch and haven't seen the people claiming go beyond simple claims.