The difference between EAC and client side FACEIT and why the change is such a big deal.

[slupka]

Hello. After checking the "DO NOT IMPLEMENT FACEIT" I have to correct some misinformation regarding EAC and FACEIT. But to make myself clear, I fully agree with the name of the previous thread.

1) FACEIT has two separate parts. A client side and a server side. Server side is fine, should in theory not affect legitimate users at all and go for it! Should analyze gameplay statistics, etc...

2) EAC and FACEIT are both kernel level anti cheats. That means both are security and privacy vulnerability and both are scanning our pc. Both can in theory see everything we do and we don't have any control about what they do. Both can create logs of what we do and send them to their respective companies

That's where the similarities end though. The main difference is: EAC only runs when you are playing the game, which can be considered legit. FACEIT RUNS FROM BOOT UNTIL SHUTDOWN. It's always on, taking precedence even before your AV. You even can't play your game after using certain legitimate software (IE process explorer) until you restart your pc again. That's a way worse security and privacy issue and HUGELY worsened experience for the user. That's why I'll boycott the game if the client side faceit ever drops.

EAC is way nicer for it's users. Did you want to add yourself some crowns in Witcher 3 using cheat engine and forgot to turn it off? EAC: Hey, you need to turn this off before you start our game. FACEIT: Too bad! Forget about using cheat engine at all! Forget about playing the game at all!

The common FAQ:
1) How much of a privacy vulnerability are kerner mode anti cheats?
We don't know and that's the issue. Only a very few people are able to reverse their drivers and look into them. And those who share their findings are few and far between. Anecdotal evidence suggests it can be more than we'd like.

2) How much of a security vulnerability are kerner mode anti cheats?
There is security and security. They open your pc for the specific company, which is bad. But otherwise it is probably the most obfuscated driver you have installed. Choosing this driver as an attack vector could be questioneable...

3) Why even kernel anti cheats? Can't they stay in user ring?
IMO they should, but it's a tradeoff... user level anti-cheats have (mostly) no way to detect or protect from kernel level cheats. But cheaters don't care about compromising their own pc and using unsigned drivers/hypervisors/... to be able to cheat. This is simply an evolution in a lost arms race. It's about us (consumers) to determine whether the tradeoff of our security and privacy is worth it. I am personally willing to bite my lip and deal with some extra cheaters rather than give away my privacy. (Don't we have working report system, guys?)

4) Will implementing FACEIT reduce the amount of cheaters?
Yes, but not by much. (More intrusive) Anti-cheat ultimately reduces the amount of people who can create undetected cheats. They can also (in waves) temporarily reduce the amount of cheaters, but there are diminishing returns. Somebody is always able to bypass the AC in one way or another. Free cheats cease to exist, but the demand for paid cheats simply shifts to that smaller monopoly market.

5) Can we win the arms race against cheaters?
No. There will always be cheaters in every game. The reason is simple, they have access to the physical hardware. And they don't mind buying pci-e cards with direct memory access that can read anything that happens in game. And more hardware to add information to the HDMI cable stream for wallacks. Or that emulates hw mouse for aimbot. Nobody really uses this nowadays, but it is a possibility and we might see this change once the games force us to use their own operating system.

P. S. Remember that ban wave recently? My friend says that it happened because EAC was incorrectly implemented. You were able to turn it off after starting the game and continue playing with no consequences. Many people just treated the game like if it had no anticheat. The ban wave was allegedly happening after this got fixed.

P.P.S. I completely forgot about the linux and streamdeck issues...

[Tweek]

Първоначално публикувано от AlldayM8:

Първоначално публикувано от Tweek:

"You're not going to buy a separate PC for a $15 early access game? What are you poor or something?"

Ok Tweek.... That's enough internet for you, I think its time for bed buddy.

Honestly its actually not that bad advice. You can run this software in a vm for extra security. The problem is most vms don't let you do a gpu passthrough so you are limited to the graphics your main cpu can use.

Yeah, jokes aside it's actually a pretty good argument for doing your gaming on a console or something.

Never had any luck with the VM GPU pass through thing. I think you are almost always better off just dual booting at that point.

[0C72]

Why the hell would they even be thinking about implementing a competitive anti-cheat in a very casual game? That's ridiculous. Privacy is hard enough to adequately maintain these days; a kernel-level AC this invasive simply shouldn't be installed on any computer that's used for more than gaming

Thankfully I just bought the game, so I'll either play as much as I can in the coming days (LOL) or refrain from playing past the 2-hour refund limit and wait to hear the developers make a statement about this. If nothing happens withing the 2-week period I'll just refund and wait some more, the game isn't even on sale.

Privacy is being valued less and less these years and it's pretty sad

[Cheesepizza2]

Първоначално публикувано от Sebi1106:

If you have nothing to hide... why would you be afraid? i just dont get it.

this argument will be taken seriously ONLY if you publicly release your physical address, right now, in this comment section. got something to hide now?

[Avallac]

Stopped reading at 2 since you are clueless. There is absolutely nothing a program running at ring 0 can do in regards to your "privacy" or "spying" or "controlling" that a usermode programs can't. No viruses or spyware needs to run at ring 0 to steal all your data and hijack your pc or spy. Cheater propaganda nonsense.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Първоначално публикувано от Sebi1106:

Първоначално публикувано от DayMan:

I actually don't really care about the privacy thing. I'm much more concerned about usage of system resources, and overall system stability. Windows is fragile enough as it is. I don't want a nuclear powered state-of-the-art system32-embedded 24/7 anticheat monitoring my computer from orbit every time I boot up just so I can play le funni pixel shooty game. Stupidly overkill.

FaceIT luckily isnt very demanding when it comes to resources.

It does require TPM 2 which is stupid enough.

[Ember]

Първоначално публикувано от Sebi1106:

Did you forget the turn of Cheat engine had me laughing.

You can literally disable FaceIT when you dont want to play..... you just rightclick and disable it. Simple as that.

The only people that dont want FaceIT are people that run on linux and cheaters.

Been using FaceIT for competetive Counterstrike for years. Yall need to chill.
FaceIT is a good thing, and there are no records of any bad incidents or security breaches related to FaceIT.

It will eliminate 99% of cheaters the second its implemented. Creating cheats that bypass FaceIT ARE A NIGHTMARE TO CREATE.

Take CS:GO as a example. FaceIT is the biggest hoster of competetive CSGO onlineplay... and there is a reason for that..... Its because its near implossible to cheat, while the basegame is cheater infested.

If you dont have Cheatengine on your rig, you have nothing to fear from faceIT.

I've had anti-cheat nuke Visual Studio and other debugging tools from my rig before which I consider to be malware at best. Does it close any vulnerabilities it opened up / uninstall itself with the game? I shouldn't have to build a second computer for playing multiplayer games and another for doing dev-work.

2. Cheat engine has legitimate uses for debugging and modding SINGLEPLAYER games and other apps. The anti-cheat can run with the game, kill the game if it detects Cheat Engine or something else running. But having debugging software uninstalled WITHOUT my knowledge or consent on my system, or being forced to disable windows processes; that's malware.

[Vilamo]

Първоначално публикувано от 0C72:

Why the hell would they even be thinking about implementing a competitive anti-cheat in a very casual game? That's ridiculous. Privacy is hard enough to adequately maintain these days; a kernel-level AC this invasive simply shouldn't be installed on any computer that's used for more than gaming

Thankfully I just bought the game, so I'll either play as much as I can in the coming days (LOL) or refrain from playing past the 2-hour refund limit and wait to hear the developers make a statement about this. If nothing happens withing the 2-week period I'll just refund and wait some more, the game isn't even on sale.

Privacy is being valued less and less these years and it's pretty sad

There is a rep from faceit in the main anti-faceit thread and they have said they are working with the devs to implement a "light" version. While it's not official that they are going this route this and other actions seem to indicate they are. Refund while you still can if that's what you are thinking.

[KZ]

EAC might as well not exist. It does nothing, at all.

[G3rberekk]

ez

[raZ]

Sorry to necropost here, but I hear people saying EAC has a built-in keylogger and is able to record/capture your screen at any given time while running. How true is this claim? Quite honestly I'm in the privacy camp - no intention of cheating, but I also don't need some company keylogging my logins for things. We can't all have 30 different PCs for each individual task we do.