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討論區規矩與守則
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Mechabellum design/balancing favors units that specialize in one role and do that role phenomenally good, both because you want units that instantly solve problems and because you want units that force enemies into over-reactions.
Rays do not solve any problem and they do not create any meaningful problems for the enemy.
In all likelihood you would get better results with a specialized unit of wasps or phoenixes or even a wrath instead of the generalist Rays.
The problem in this thread is we have guys who play the meme 4F mode arguing about balance ...
When we talk about balance we should only consider 1v1 ranked.
And tbh almost everything counters Phantom Ray....
Phoenix , AA Sniper , AA Mustangs , Overlords and Melters....
all you need to do is place some 1-2 Fangs before any of the above mentioned units and Phantom Ray is completely useless. It uncloacks and gets stuck on fangs while getting destroyed by Phoenix , AA niper , Mustangs , Overlords and Melters in seconds
frontline Firebadger with range -> oil on phantoms and phoenix as backup
after that fill up with AA Forts against possible wasp counter.
This comb sets everything on fire super fast and therefore kills chaff
and then phoenix + phantom are both good vs the remaining giants
1700mmr imo is not really high mmr but rather "medium high"
i am only 200 behind 1700 as 1,5k myself and i am sooo incredible far behind truly high mmr players who are cinsistently 2000mmr+
still i would be very interested in how a 1700mmr player uses them in a good way.
i cant see it yet myself.
The main weakness is that it cant clear chaff and is so incredible weak against fangs with either Phoenix , AA Sniper , AA Mustangs , Overlords or melters behind it
As "stock" its very good at dealing with balls, sledges and most medium entities. It's "ok" vs chaff. With HE upgrade it clears chaff very well.
What i found out that to get the best out of it you need to make it re-cloak as much as possible. The range upgrade is actually a really bad choice for this. with minimal range the ray constantly re-cloaks after killing something. Burst rockets are absolute crap as well as the ray will just overkill chaff and sit there for 7.5 seconds out of stealth and will get picked off.
For counters I found that overlords and melters to be the most effective counters which I struggle the most to beat.
my biggest problem with them so far is that they get stuck on vertical fangs forever !
So without a source of fire they do nothing for me.
For me they are only playable with fire badger , fire storms or fire Vulcans
While that is magic Christmas land for the most part, EMP marksmen aren't and since the phantoms need tech to be good they just shrivel and die against EMP. As do a lot of closer range units with good techs, like Rhino and Tarantulas.
Also they don't handle phoenixes or AA Forts well.
I think you are too tunnel visioned on their oil bombs. Those are not what the unit is centered on. It is centered on cloak. I actually rarely tech the bombs, they are mostly more of a hindrance than help because their slow down my front line advance and get my rays isolated in the front lines.
For most of the game the only tech that is mandatory on a ray is cloak. Everything else is situational. HE is great if you plan to use them for aggro plays with a fast frontline as chaff clearer. Shields are great for later rounds. Armor is good vs wasps, mustangs and typhoons.
Pair them with units like sledges, tarantulas, mustangs etc. Like other units you aren't going to win games by using it by itself, figure out what pairs well with them. When they get levels they wreck almost anything.
Depends what you are bringing it in for. If you are bringing it in to handle a sabertooth or vulcan, range and burst rockets are both great. I saw someone in another thread say that with burst rockets, even level 1 rays do 56k damage per volley. I haven't checked that math, but I can say from experience that they do a LOT of damage with burst rockets on.
Also, burst rockets completely overwhelms anti-missile defenses. So it can be useful as a counter to their counter sometimes as well. Or even to overwhelm missile defenses so your storm caller missiles get through with no problem.
Again, depends on what you are using them for. Oil bombs are actually great counter play to someone playing aggro. It's consistent, every turn, oil that slow down their steels balls and whatnot. Then guess what is really good at killing slow steel balls? That's right. Phantom rays.
I say don't set the oil on fire. Leave it down to slow down the aggro guys entire push.
Point here is phantom rays have many situations where they are useful. You guys are right in that you can't just slap em down all willy nilly and expect to get value. But they are pretty solid counters to several situations.
Need good clear for steel balls and sledges that can't be hit by either? Check.
Having trouble killing that sabertooth or vulcan? Burst rockets. Check
Need to overwhelm the missile defense of that war factory cause it's shutting down your storm callers? Burst rockets, check.
Did he stack everything on one side and is very light on things that can shoot up (very common in early rounds of aggro)? Slap one of these guys down with oil on em. Check.
Flanking and want to throw a wrench in by making an air unit behind your crawlers that does fairly well against most targets, but doesn't die in 2 seconds to a farseer or mustangs? Check.
Just too many things are good vs them.
AA sniper , AA Mustang, Melters , Phoenix , AA Wasps , Boats and espacially Fangs who turn off the cloaking of them.
Also while it is a rare situation War factory AM can also cut their dps down dramatically
I can see that in some games you can get good combinations going and also if opponent doesnt react you can get to critical number.
Overall imo its better to just go phoenix instead of phantom ray in most situations
at the moment the Ray feels so broken in this mode.
I dont play brawl ? I only have tried brawl for 5 games in my life and never played it again
i only talk about 1v1 ranked
edit:
no wonder cloak ray is absolutely op in FFA
all chaff is dead after the initial encounters and left are only big units.
Now you have a unit with high burst damage and thx to cloak always shoots first.
Phantom Ray is not ballanced for 4playerFFA at all since all chaff is dead too fast