Chaff guide

[Surrey]

I made a guide about using chaff units (crawler, fang). Hope you find it helpful.

The guide is in video format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFhlX6JG77A

[Fresh Produce]

I tried building three times as much chaff as I am used to and then I lost because I had nothing but chaff. Once I get used to having three times as much chaff, I will need to build 9 times as much. It will all be worth it in the end when I hit 3k mmr.

[Riggs]

Good video. Watching comparisons of types of chaff vs anti chaff units was simple but useful, along with different situations different types are useful.

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by Fresh Produce:

I tried building three times as much chaff as I am used to and then I lost because I had nothing but chaff. Once I get used to having three times as much chaff, I will need to build 9 times as much. It will all be worth it in the end when I hit 3k mmr.

Its funny how people always try to find something negative on actually very good contributions.

Surrey is making good videos with very solid advice.
Community should be thankfull that a 1800mmr player (before mmr change ~ 2300mmr)
shares very good strategy and tipps for new players.

there is no reason to hate

i went on a 17-3 in 20 games from 900 to 1100 mmr simply by building chaff in round 5,6,7 and target locking enemy premium units....
its very clear that he is correct that in lower mmr people dont understand how important it is to target lock enemy units with a constant stream of chaff that flows in from behind

i stopped winning so much at 1100mmr because people at this rate started to also build tons of chaff during whole game

[Fresh Produce]

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

Originally posted by Fresh Produce:

I tried building three times as much chaff as I am used to and then I lost because I had nothing but chaff. Once I get used to having three times as much chaff, I will need to build 9 times as much. It will all be worth it in the end when I hit 3k mmr.

Its funny how people always try to find something negative on actually very good contributions.

Surrey is making good videos with very solid advice.
Community should be thankfull that a 1800mmr player (before mmr change ~ 2300mmr)
shares very good strategy and tipps for new players.

there is no reason to hate

i went on a 17-3 in 20 games from 900 to 1100 mmr simply by building chaff in round 5,6,7 and target locking enemy premium units....
its very clear that he is correct that in lower mmr people dont understand how important it is to target lock enemy units with a constant stream of chaff that flows in from behind

i stopped winning so much at 1100mmr because people at this rate started to also build tons of chaff during whole game

You are seeing negativity where there is none. There is no hate.

Build two to three times as much chaff as you are used to is a bad formulation for a rule as it makes assumptions about how much chaff the player is building and what people are used to can change. In his other video he gives a much better rule pertaining to chaff. That being, always take a start with chaff and buy 2 chaff on the first round. As a rule, that results in the same outcome for every one who follows it. However, the rule put forward in this video could yield anywhere from two to twenty or more crawler packs.

Every one likes Surrey's content. There is no need to defend him.

[Surrey]

it was a bit lazy formula for the rule, i agree

[Sonnenbank]

i mean its obvious that you cant take 2-3x chaff litteraly for every single player in every single match....

come one

Its like when someone says: " you need the heart of a Lion to stepp into the boxing ring"
and then people complain because they did shoot and kill a lion and now have his physical heart in their hands but that didnt help them win the boxing match

in a game with so many parameters you cant take rules litteraly for every single game...
Its the same with the RAT rules....
they are true in 19/20 cases but in 5% of situations they are wrong.

[happyscrub]

When showing fangs and crawlers vs sledges, you only used 100 credit of chaff vs 200 credit of sledge. Not a fair comparison. Should be 2 packs of fangs/crawlers. Especially unfair since crawlers are melee. A lot of them are suppose to die to range until they get close. 2 packs of crawlers would do some damage vs tanks vs what the fangs would do. Might even kill it outright. You did this with mustangs too.

So then you take this philosophy and say build a TON of chaff. WTF? I stopped watching then

[Tungdil12]

Originally posted by happyscrub:

When showing fangs and crawlers vs sledges, you only used 100 credit of chaff vs 200 credit of sledge. Not a fair comparison. Should be 2 packs of fangs/crawlers. Especially unfair since crawlers are melee. A lot of them are suppose to die to range until they get close. 2 packs of crawlers would do some damage vs tanks vs what the fangs would do. Might even kill it outright. You did this with mustangs too.

So then you take this philosophy and say build a TON of chaff. WTF? I stopped watching then

Its not about the damage the chaff deals it is about the time it takes the chaff clear to kill the chaff, and for that a 1v1 is totally fine.

[Riggs]

He said in the video "Of the games I reviewed almost all did not build enough chaff" (paraphrasing). Obviously if someone is building 'enough' chaff they dont need to triple it blindly - and instead look at other reasons they might be stuck at low mmr.

But if say 90% of people are doing something suboptimal, the video is a great help to fix one aspect of gameplay. Arguing over a turn of phrase seems a bit pointless.

[Riggs]

Originally posted by happyscrub:

When showing fangs and crawlers vs sledges, you only used 100 credit of chaff vs 200 credit of sledge. Not a fair comparison. Should be 2 packs of fangs/crawlers. Especially unfair since crawlers are melee. A lot of them are suppose to die to range until they get close. 2 packs of crawlers would do some damage vs tanks vs what the fangs would do. Might even kill it outright. You did this with mustangs too.

So then you take this philosophy and say build a TON of chaff. WTF? I stopped watching then

If you have played the game (if you are posting here that seems like a yes?), then anyone who has played will realise you get the same number of units to deploy as the opponent, regardless of cost. People dont get to place equal resources worth of units, they get to place 2,3 or 4 units per turn. So making those units count matters - and comparing how different chaff units deal with different damage dealing units is the the entire point of the game.

Trying to dunk of one of the top players of the game when not even understanding a core mechanic of the game doesnt have the effect you probably are hoping.

[happyscrub]

Originally posted by Riggs:

If you have played the game (if you are posting here that seems like a yes?), then anyone who has played will realise you get the same number of units to deploy as the opponent, regardless of cost. People dont get to place equal resources worth of units, they get to place 2,3 or 4 units per turn.

You don't have to play units every turn. It's not a rule. Hell, some people delete units every turn.

[DarkWing]

Great job, man!

[76561199611763116]

Awesome video!
Having recently played lower mmr games i would say people make a fair amount of chaff, at least 50% of players do, i do think positioning and also timing and having the right amount of chaff clear is somewhat of an art and is also something I think top players see intuitively due to having spent a lot more time with the game. A newer player is not going to automatically see that interaction.
I think a big thing that intermediate or newer players miss is the vision of how the board is likely to develop with tech choices for yourself and the opponent - its very hard to learn this without putting in the time which most people dont have enough of!

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by RoundingAFool:

Awesome video!
Having recently played lower mmr games i would say people make a fair amount of chaff, at least 50% of players do, i do think positioning and also timing and having the right amount of chaff clear is somewhat of an art and is also something I think top players see intuitively due to having spent a lot more time with the game. A newer player is not going to automatically see that interaction.
I think a big thing that intermediate or newer players miss is the vision of how the board is likely to develop with tech choices for yourself and the opponent - its very hard to learn this without putting in the time which most people dont have enough of!

i dont know what you define as lower mmr `?
i would say almost everyone below 1000mmr builds not enough chaff
1000mmr+ is when i see people start to build more chaff

most "bad" players build chaff only round 1,2,3 and then never again.
and that is a sure recipe for losing

[76561199611763116]

oh I thought lower mmr is under 1500, i maybe only played a couple of games under 1000
but i think there are many compounding issues at that MMR. I am not sure if RAT was talking about very low MMR guys or a certain range - it would be nice to know which he meant