I am so tired of cherry picking players

[Medicus]

We were promised a 3min ban for chancelling others due to heart attack and the need to chancel a game in this case. But we got 50sec now and not even a ban but placing them in a different q.

Cherry picking is a major issue right now. It completely dismantles the competitive nature of the ladder.

[Parzival]

Yes, cherry picking contradicts the competitive nature of the game. We need a mechanism that really sanctions the canceling of other players. 👍

[SanityBasket]

Holy kittens this is asinine. MMR systems are like weight classes. They exist to ensure the little people don't get stomped by the big, so that everyone can compete. No one complains when someone punches above their weight class, because they go into the match with a disadvantage.

The idea that the game is punishing people for not wanting to smurf is just sad. Particularly since queue times are so short.

[SirMantu]

Totally agree cherry picking enemys in a competitive game makes no sense
Please just remove all informations about the enemy found

[Mivo]

Originally posted by SirMantu:

Totally agree cherry picking enemys in a competitive game makes no sense

Are there other competitive games where this is possible?

I think removing the display of the opponent's MMR in the matchmaking screen is a good suggestion.

[puschit]

What are your cherries, though? What do people pick? I don't really see an advantage here, CP is meaningless and meanwhile every opponnet I get has a similar MMR, so what is it worth replacing a 1326 dude with a 1298 one?

The annoying part is that it is possible to get cancelled several times in a row, prolonging the wait times. But, at least in my region, wait times are short.

[SanityBasket]

There are no cherries, the accusation is that people are deliberately avoiding advantageous fights, and seeking disadvantageous fights. Like a boxer or wrestler fighting above their weight class.

[Mivo]

Originally posted by puschit:

What are your cherries, though? What do people pick?

You can see some (not all) streamers doing it at higher levels. Their MMR may be 2000+ and if they get matched with a 1700-1800 MMR player, which happens in the off hours, they'll cancel the queue because if they lose the game they'll drop 30 MMR and if they win they may get 5 MMR, so the "risk" is seen as too high. This isn't an interpretation of why they cancel, but the reason they give. Nobody likes doing this, but there is a tangible benefit.

There is no point in doing this if your opponents are close to your own MMR, but if the MMR discrepancy is high, cherry picking opponents and only playing against equally or higher rated players is incentivized. You're more likely to retain or increase your MMR this way, which I feel manipulates the matchmaking/rating system.

A related issue is MMR camping since the game has no MMR decay,.

[SanityBasket]

Literally complaining that people only want to face people of their skill level and above, instead of punching down.

Such disingenuous nonsense.

[Fishy]

The reason this is happening is because the MMR system is not correctly weighted for the actual win/loss percentage for various MMR differences.

I'm not saying players should be cherry-picking, but it is a massive feel-bad when you get paired significantly down and can expect to lose 8-10x more points than you can win, when you're not actually predicted to win 8-10x more against that player.

My MMR has fluctuated from 1400 > 1700 > 1400 > 1600 > 1300 in the last hundred games, with a close to 50% win ratio at all of those ratings. That is a crazy degree of fluctuation in such a short space of time, and no way was "me last week" a 10-1 favourite against "me today."

It also feels like it is matching up when you have a winstreak, and down when you have a lose streak, which exacerbates the swings, makes the MMR less accurate, and is actually *increasing* the feel bad when you're on a lose streak.

Every time I win/lose 2-3 matches in a row, it pairs me up/down a few hundred MMR. When I'm losing and getting paired down against someone that still has a decent shot at beating me, but now I'm only getting 5 MMR for a win, but am losing 30 on another loss, it just feels like I'm being punished. Sure, I'll win more of those than I lose, but not 8-10x.

Same thing happens when I'm on a winstreak, which obviously feels nice, but this is not how to actually balance MMR. The point gain/loss ratios are too severe, and the matching based on win/lose streaks is just doubly broken when implemented alongside a broken MMR

Maybe this isn't an issue at more competetive MMRs, but it's making the 1000-2000 bracket feel *awful*

They should have enough data to properly weight the win/loss, at which point the MMR should balance itself out, and then there will be zero incentive to cherry-pick, as your expected points win/loss against any other MMR should break even.

[Wolfyguardian]

I left the game due to that reason and judging by the player numbers, many did

[Kazouie]

coming back to the game after a while and on a win streak at about 1300 mmr i was wondering why i get dodged so much by higher mmr players. I had hoped it wouldn't be this.

[AltsRlame]

Sorry until they fix the match making and MMR I don;t see how you can advocate for punishing people that this lousy system tries to match up with people 100-500 mmr lower which will only offer a massive hit to your rating if you lose and gaining a meager 1-5 for winning. Also to make matters worse the entire game population now (~80-90%) are actually peoples second (hell third and fourth) accounts because this poorly thought out change did what it always does aka create ladder anxiety so people squat on their best score and play an alt hoping to leap frog. So the odds are you will draw a high cailber players alt still trying to rank up and just lose loads of mmr.

Anyone active can call out names of those people who used the excuse "my alt is just for experimenting" and when you spectate there is zero "testing" going on its hardcore win at all costs meta play and even worse some of their alts once they got a higher rating magically became "their main".

Don;t get me wrong it is annoying to get endless dodges but its just as annoying to get matched with a opponent that your literal best outcome is no gain. Fix the system, improve the game so the population can sustain an MMR system and then we can talk about forcing people to take matches when the opponent is of an appropriate rating so you gain what you would lose. Until then don't blame players who are tired of having their rating clobbered by the top 50's endless line of up alts but just know "they are not hiding to keep their high rating they just want to experiment". hah!

[puschit]

If players actually create second, third and fourth accounts to dodge this ... then they are making a lot of extra money ... just saying, that that would be a great incentive to NOT change anything.

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by AltsRlame:

Also to make matters worse the entire game population now (~80-90%) are actually peoples second (hell third and fourth) accounts because this poorly thought out change did what it always does aka create ladder anxiety so people squat on their best score and play an alt hoping to leap frog.

I think the current mmr system could be better but this is just flat out retarded. If their current system is causing people to buy the game 3-4 times over then I can't blame the devs for never fixing it. This isn't happening, realistically people are not going to spend 40+ bucks just to avoid ladder anxiety.

Complaining about this now is just going to make it harder to raise the complaint when the game goes free to play and it's a legit issue.

Originally posted by puschit:

If players actually create second, third and fourth accounts to dodge this ... then they are making a lot of extra money ... just saying, that that would be a great incentive to NOT change anything.

Oh you already beat me to it... But yeah, this is the logical conclusion he should have drawn before posting his insane conspiracy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[AltsRlame]

Originally posted by puschit:

If players actually create second, third and fourth accounts to dodge this ... then they are making a lot of extra money ... just saying, that that would be a great incentive to NOT change anything.

indeed why you think its not addressed? its literally a 5 minute fix. I mean this is nothing new every stinking game with a rank ladder is plagued with alt's among many other issues. Anyone familair with league of legends know most people that still play have atleast 4+ accounts. Even when the game is free the developers still make money in ways you buy skins for each account, you prop up their metrics for new players etc..Most times developers don;t care because it makes them money. Its same with cheaters they rather let you cheat ban your account because they know you will buy another and do it all over they literally could block any type of cheat from ever entering the game in the first place but instead let you use cheats only to ban you because they can detect cheating lol. It's the same with this they could do a user verification of sorts or mark/check the computer system the client uses and assign it an account but they simply benefit from not addressing it.