Sabertooth missile defense

[Arti_Sel]

It's so trash, can't even prevent the regular 50 cost missiles when they are standing 2 steps from starting line. Is the tech purely for half-assed stormcaller dmg reduction? Because with the increase in missile health on OV's they aren't doing much against OV's now either.

[fluxtorrent]

it's the offset, sucks shooting down missiles aimed at it, but its ok for providing cover for other units. works decently against phantom rays though and is surprisingly good against the farseer missiles due to their less direct path. Definitely not a replacement for the better antimissile stuff but its a decent supplement if you have the extra econ

[Antpile]

I've had similar issues. Sometimes they can stop sentry missiles, sometimes they can't. They aren't at all reliable for that... which sucks. Half the reason I would click the button on sabers would be to stop sentry missiles. If i need serious AM, I'd be going something else.

[Bug Guy]

I do think they should be better at sentries. But what I see it for is extremely cheap anti-missile defense against low density enemy missiles that does not detract from your Sabers DPS. Mustangs have to stop shooting to take down missile, Sabers dont. But I honestly have no idea how relatively strong it is, Im not skilled or experienced enough to hazard a guess outside what I have already said

[Perplex]

I think sentry missiles have either more HP or a bigger chance of dodging the Anti Missile tech. But i am just guessing. Also the closer you are the harder it is to counter (all missiles)

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Perplex:

I think sentry missiles have either more HP or a bigger chance of dodging the Anti Missile tech. But i am just guessing. Also the closer you are the harder it is to counter (all missiles)

I tried it out at multiple distances, but I couldn't get a sabertooth to counter a pointblank sentry aimed at crawlers. Two sabers can manage though.

It's a disappointing performance, I think whatever balancing that needs to be done to make it so that anti-missile performs at least 1-1 with a sentry, it should be done. I'd even take anti-missile that increases with lvl so that only lvl 2 and upward sabers can block efficiently. The tech is just so weak atm. Make it can cost like 350 or even 400, but just have it actually do it's job.

[Dominic]

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Originally posted by Perplex:

I think sentry missiles have either more HP or a bigger chance of dodging the Anti Missile tech. But i am just guessing. Also the closer you are the harder it is to counter (all missiles)

I tried it out at multiple distances, but I couldn't get a sabertooth to counter a pointblank sentry aimed at crawlers. Two sabers can manage though.

It's a disappointing performance, I think whatever balancing that needs to be done to make it so that anti-missile performs at least 1-1 with a sentry, it should be done. I'd even take anti-missile that increases with lvl so that only lvl 2 and upward sabers can block efficiently. The tech is just so weak atm. Make it can cost like 350 or even 400, but just have it actually do it's job.

anti missile techs and inversely missiles feel kinda bad in general for both players. it either works and is devastating or it does nothing. in sabers or other AM units it blocks all missiles and they do nothing, in storms/OL/sentry it either hits hard (storms with emp will snowball against am devices) or they do nothing cuz the missiles get shot down. its just very polarizing, though i dont really have a huge issue with them this is just my thoughts on the matter.

could be neat to see anti missile tech instead maybe give damage reduction vs all missiles in its radius (remove emp from storms or make emp not disable AM) and have the gun effect cause them to veer off course randomly (within a limited range, say its aiming for a saber, storm missile gets shot to veer off 4 grid tiles to the right of the saber). or just cut the last effect of making them veer off, im not exactly sold on that idea myself because it could end up being annoying hitting random stuff you dont expect.

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Dominic:

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

I tried it out at multiple distances, but I couldn't get a sabertooth to counter a pointblank sentry aimed at crawlers. Two sabers can manage though.

It's a disappointing performance, I think whatever balancing that needs to be done to make it so that anti-missile performs at least 1-1 with a sentry, it should be done. I'd even take anti-missile that increases with lvl so that only lvl 2 and upward sabers can block efficiently. The tech is just so weak atm. Make it can cost like 350 or even 400, but just have it actually do it's job.

anti missile techs and inversely missiles feel kinda bad in general for both players. it either works and is devastating or it does nothing. in sabers or other AM units it blocks all missiles and they do nothing, in storms/OL/sentry it either hits hard (storms with emp will snowball against am devices) or they do nothing cuz the missiles get shot down. its just very polarizing, though i dont really have a huge issue with them this is just my thoughts on the matter.

I think the "feelbad" as you described it is just the normal feeling of a hardcounter either working or not working. Feels bad for the player losing their high level rhino to a melter, but it also feels bad when the melter can't get the target and dies to the rhino. But there is more interplay to those scenarios I guess. But currently the anti-missile tech is just purely not working as a hardcounter even during optimal conditions.

Originally posted by Dominic:

could be neat to see anti missile tech instead maybe give damage reduction vs all missiles in its radius (remove emp from storms or make emp not disable AM) and have the gun effect cause them to veer off course randomly (within a limited range, say its aiming for a saber, storm missile gets shot to veer off 4 grid tiles to the right of the saber). or just cut the last effect of making them veer off, im not exactly sold on that idea myself because it could end up being annoying hitting random stuff you dont expect.

Maybe they could give like a limited ammo or timer to anti-missile tech, sort of like how the photon emission eventually runs out and makes electroshots viable again. However they do it anti-missile tech should at the very least be able to handle the initial sentry missiles.

[Dominic]

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

I think the "feelbad" as you described it is just the normal feeling of a hardcounter either working or not working. Feels bad for the player losing their high level rhino to a melter, but it also feels bad when the melter can't get the target and dies to the rhino. But there is more interplay to those scenarios I guess. But currently the anti-missile tech is just purely not working as a hardcounter even during optimal conditions.

yeah, with a rhino vs melter example you could beacon it elsewhere, use a deployment mod or try to distract melter with wasps or something, missiles either work or they dont and there isnt much you can do about them yourself aside from buy more am devices/units or as the other player buy more missiles to try and overwhelm.

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Maybe they could give like a limited ammo or timer to anti-missile tech, sort of like how the photon emission eventually runs out and makes electroshots viable again. However they do it anti-missile tech should at the very least be able to handle the initial sentry missiles.

Yeah a timer could work if they buff up all AM devices would make overlords feel really bad though, i dunno how i would feel about limited ammo though, thats adding a new system to the game to take note of cuz nothing else has limited "ammo" (exluding unit production cuz its not really ammo)

another option would be to add different AM devices. for example sabers could have a flak style AM device that shoots slower but has higher damage to missiles and a bit of radius so it can hit multiple in a go if they are close enough.

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Dominic:

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

I think the "feelbad" as you described it is just the normal feeling of a hardcounter either working or not working. Feels bad for the player losing their high level rhino to a melter, but it also feels bad when the melter can't get the target and dies to the rhino. But there is more interplay to those scenarios I guess. But currently the anti-missile tech is just purely not working as a hardcounter even during optimal conditions.

yeah, with a rhino vs melter example you could beacon it elsewhere, use a deployment mod or try to distract melter with wasps or something, missiles either work or they dont and there isnt much you can do about them yourself aside from buy more am devices/units or as the other player buy more missiles to try and overwhelm.

I guess there is a limited amount of interaction when it comes to highspeed units and some types of missiles. But ye, missiles could use some more interaction.

Originally posted by Dominic:

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Maybe they could give like a limited ammo or timer to anti-missile tech, sort of like how the photon emission eventually runs out and makes electroshots viable again. However they do it anti-missile tech should at the very least be able to handle the initial sentry missiles.

Yeah a timer could work if they buff up all AM devices would make overlords feel really bad though, i dunno how i would feel about limited ammo though, thats adding a new system to the game to take note of cuz nothing else has limited "ammo" (exluding unit production cuz its not really ammo)

True, I mostly proposed this out of frustration. Timer isn't a super good idea either since there is no good in-universe explanation for why anti-missiles only works at the start.

But maybe adding another system to missiles/antimissiles wouldn't be that bad since the current implementation is so binary.

Originally posted by Dominic:

another option would be to add different AM devices. for example sabers could have a flak style AM device that shoots slower but has higher damage to missiles and a bit of radius so it can hit multiple in a go if they are close enough.

I would be ok with pretty much whatever makes sentry missiles 1/1 with aa.

[Pimpin Pippin]

Compared to other saber upgrades their AM is not worth getting.

[Mokkun]

Originally posted by Dominic:

Yeah a timer could work if they buff up all AM devices would make overlords feel really bad though, i dunno how i would feel about limited ammo though, thats adding a new system to the game to take note of cuz nothing else has limited "ammo" (exluding unit production cuz its not really ammo)

Fairly sure AM systems all degrade over the course of shooting and become weaker as they keep firing. So there is a form of timer on them.

[TopHatz]

It's neat because the combat effectiveness of the unit is not reduced at all compared to say mustangs. And sabertooths are much more affordable than farseer.

Also with the new change that makes higher rank units better at shooting down missiles, you can snowball quite well.

[HolgFromHell]

Saber AM is cheap.
And if you already have three or more of them - why not?...

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by HolgFromHell:

Saber AM is cheap.
And if you already have three or more of them - why not?...

Because they can't stop even a single sentry missile unless they are in close proximity to one another, I'd rather spend that cash on something that has any type of impact.

[boon2537]

At least the AM effects look kinda cool lol