current hounds phoenix meta might actually make me skip this season.

[Sonnenbank]

Hounds have been nerfed with needing more level XP
However the main problem didnt go away.

After so many Arc and Tanks nerfs
2x 100 hound beats 2x 100 arcs and 1x200 tanks not only in chaff clear ability but even in 1v1 in the long run.

Despite Hounds XP nerf they still level faster than Arcs and Tanks which after a couple rounds will lead to Hounds starting to overwhelm 2 of the units they should be a direct counter.

And even Spiders who are a good Counter early on get outleveld and beaten in the longrun.

So Hounds beat :

- Fangs,
- Crawler ,
- Arcs ,
- Tanks ,
- and even Spiders

Now while Tanks with Armour and repair will beat Hounds in 1v1 they still lose in chaff clear speed

while Scorpions and Sabertooth beat hounds in 1v1 they still lose in chaffclear speed.
And thats where phoenix come into play.

I am open to suggestions but currently i think nothing beats braindead houndspam
with range and mechrage upgrade followed by mass phoenix.


Hounds simply do not have a cost efficient counter.
Arcs and Tanks should have this role but they got nerfed too hard and now
cant keep up with levels and lose vs hounds longterm in both chaff clear and 1v1

[{sBc} Bane5]

I've found that against a hounds player, it's best to actually best to invest in a rank 2 sledgehammer from the get-go. The rank 2 sledgehammer can 1-shot a rank 1 hound and will perpetually keep them from leveling up.

There are also niche openers. For example: if you get an amplify specialist, amplify item + tarantula + 150 cost +50% damage tech will make your tarantula 1-shot hounds which will give you a big lead.

[Sonnenbank]

And just to clarify ... its not about me losing or winning.
I am 7-1 in my last 8 games.... and the only game i lost was vs hounds + phoenix.
i also won all 3 games were i played hounds + phonenix.

I just feel hounds + phoenix is currently utterly broken

[Dominic]

hound phoenix spam loses to spread crawlers. if they then invest in fire tech you can just drop 2 or so of your own hounds at the front with extinguisher to clean the initial missiles.

then just insert any decent dps unit behind them. stangs are nice if they dont have armor tech equiped, scorps do well, forts with aa barrage will deal with hounds and phoenix, etc

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by Dominic:

hound phoenix spam loses to spread crawlers. if they then invest in fire tech you can just drop 2 or so of your own hounds at the front with extinguisher to clean the initial missiles.

then just insert any decent dps unit behind them. stangs are nice if they dont have armor tech equiped, scorps do well, forts with aa barrage will deal with hounds and phoenix, etc

scorps and forts do well but are super expensive....
i have yet to see any form of crawler not getting absolutely deleted by hounds....

mustangs will get obliterated by mechrage hounds even without armour
when you 2x100 hounds vs 1x100 mustangs in the longrun hounds will come out on top.

same as with tanks and arclights.
those units do well vs hounds the first 4-5 rounds and then fall behind

[Alpha]

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

Hounds have been nerfed with needing more level XP
However the main problem didnt go away.

After so many Arc and Tanks nerfs
2x 100 hound beats 2x 100 arcs and 1x200 tanks not only in chaff clear ability but even in 1v1 in the long run.

Despite Hounds XP nerf they still level faster than Arcs and Tanks which after a couple rounds will lead to Hounds starting to overwhelm 2 of the units they should be a direct counter.

And even Spiders who are a good Counter early on get outleveld and beaten in the longrun.

So Hounds beat :

- Fangs,
- Crawler ,
- Arcs ,
- Tanks ,
- and even Spiders

Now while Tanks with Armour and repair will beat Hounds in 1v1 they still lose in chaff clear speed

while Scorpions and Sabertooth beat hounds in 1v1 they still lose in chaffclear speed.
And thats where phoenix come into play.

I am open to suggestions but currently i think nothing beats braindead houndspam
with range and mechrage upgrade followed by mass phoenix.


Hounds simply do not have a cost efficient counter.
Arcs and Tanks should have this role but they got nerfed too hard and now
cant keep up with levels and lose vs hounds longterm in both chaff clear and 1v1

i dont know why people make a new thread when i post the exact same things in different threads. maybe just react and stop open a new thread for 1 point of 10 points i published. so just boring.

[Dominic]

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

scorps and forts do well but are super expensive....
i have yet to see any form of crawler not getting absolutely deleted by hounds....

i mean yeah forts and scorps are expensive but so is buying phoenix hounds and teching them. you can get a fort round 3 if you set up for it (or get 2 forts round 3 if you get the fort card unit drop)
spaced crawlers will still die obviously but itll take a few more shots

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

mustangs will get obliterated by mechrage hounds even without armour
when you 2x100 hounds vs 1x100 mustangs in the longrun hounds will come out on top.

this is obvious that stangs would lose to a chaffclear unit in a 1v1, but the game isnt a vacuum you would have something to tank for the mustangs just like any other match.

[boon2537]

The real problem facing against that comp is that you need to stall long enough to get your answers online. Spider with range + AOE is a solid counter to hounds but that's pretty expensive. You'll need mustangs to deal with phoenix and then probably melter when they deploy melter/fort. I feel that you're always couple deployments behind because you also have to deploy chaff while hound serves alright as chaff for that comp. I only faced this once though so I don't think this comp is really meta right now.

[Alpha]

i dont know why people argue against it. its clear a fact that u see in 90% of the games:
1. no chaff in the first rounds, this was totally impossible some patches ago
2. only chaff clear like arc or hounds
3. hounds in every game at all

Fangs are completly useless at the moment, same with crawler. in 90% of every game or any player playing it loosing by playing fangs or crawler.

hounds are the same problem like melting point for giants.
the base design of this unit is just broken. if u ask me completly delete hounds from the game. and put the tech of hounds like anti fire or fire rockets on a medic tanky unit similar to farseer.

i get the feeling that also fangs are no possible to play in front of fortress to block melting point anylonger. because it ends up always the same. u play fangs. enemy play antifangs enemy clears ur fangs and melting point kills ur fortress.
it seems like hounds in front of fortress to clear his anti chaff or his chaff is the better way.
so the problem is obviously that the "chaff hounds" are chaff + anti chaff and this shouldnt exist in a rock paper scissor game.

[Dominic]

Originally posted by Alpha:

i dont know why people argue against it. its clear a fact that u see in 90% of the games:
1. no chaff in the first rounds, this was totally impossible some patches ago
2. only chaff clear like arc or hounds
3. hounds in every game at all

Fangs are completly useless at the moment, same with crawler. in 90% of every game or any player playing it loosing by playing fangs or crawler.

would love to see where you get these very real statistics from.

Originally posted by Alpha:

so the problem is obviously that the "chaff hounds" are chaff + anti chaff and this shouldnt exist in a rock paper scissor game.

sledges are literally chaff clearing chaff and have existed for a long while. mustangs are also chaffclearing chaff and have existed for a long while

[Alpha]

sledges = chaff clearing
mustang = chaff
i stopped reading.
hahahaha

[boon2537]

Originally posted by Alpha:

sledges = chaff clearing
mustang = chaff
i stopped reading.
hahahaha

Hmm, I wonder how good sledges are against crawlers. And when playing fort (with range upgrade) + mustang or melter + mustang, what is tanking for the giants when the initial chaffs are gone?

[ShivaX]

Hounds are too good for their cost imo.

Arclights mulch Fangs and Crawlers slower and are vulnerable to stuff like Marksmen killing them before they do the job. Or they can just be overrun by enough chaff. Hounds seem to kill 2-3 times their cost without issue. If they have the fire missiles chaff just ceases to exist unless you hide them behind shields.

[rocketdrive]

Originally posted by Alpha:

sledges = chaff clearing
mustang = chaff
i stopped reading.
hahahaha

I mean you laugh but carry fang is very much a thing you can build for. Thats chaff clearing chaff. Mustang is just fang but faster and longer range.

[Lucratius]

Alpha continuing to act as if he was some kind of pro player while spouting some of the dumbest takes on this board.


Meanwhile actual good players (2k+ MMR) still buy plenty of Crawlers and Fangs, and win. Skill issue I'm afraid.

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by Alpha:

i dont know why people make a new thread when i post the exact same things in different threads. maybe just react and stop open a new thread for 1 point of 10 points i published. so just boring.

Sorry i dont even remember you nor do i remember any threads from you ....

Also i dont agree with some of your statements concerning hounds and balance.

fangs are not useless
crawlers still are good in many situatiuons.

So i am not on the same page with you.

The main Problem with Hounds is the same Problem Arclight carry had in the past.
Arclights were nerfed into oblivion.....

hounds should not win vs tanks , arcs and mustang, Sniper and even Tarantula in the long run.
but currently they do.

If you build tanks or arclights or spider vs hounds you do pretty good the first couple rounds.
But in the long run you lose.
And that should not be the case.
The XP nerf was a stepp in the right direction but it wasnt enough