Everything wrong with brawl.

[Edle]

Hello everyone here i will list everything that i believe is wrong with the brawl at this stage but first il explain what is happening in brawl.

The brawl is a FFA mode , you first fight a wave and then with the remaining of your troops you fight your other three opponents and the main goal is to reach 8000 points which at that point you win , pretty straight forward!

Now lets list stuff that makes brawl not fun (i would also like to mention that i have 400+ hours played this game and its almost all in brawl).

1) This is by far the worst aspect of brawl and its something that will probably make you quit the game all together and its people using tactics like:

Wasp teleport.
Overlord teleport.
Worm side stepping off.

The reason why this is a game breaking tactic is because you are meant to fight your wave if you are the one with the highest points but what some people do is they just flee over to someone else avoiding there wave all together and forcing who ever is next to him to fight the wave for them while they are chilling on the sideline doing NOTHING.
And here i ask , what is the point of having waves if people can just avoid them?

And my suggestions for a fix for this is either:

1)Make the wave friendly to the other player after wave 6 so wave 7-8-9-10 until the player that had the wave in the first place has either dealt with it or been eliminated.

2)Another solution is to put barriers on the left and right and not allow worms to pass like that and for the teleportation units make some kind of a penalty for using that ability , something like 20% health 20% damage reduction (just mentioning a random number here)

3)Remove all units after wave 6 and let the players fight it out, that way yes they can teleport and yes they can move with the worms side ways but it doesn't matter since there is no NPC units on the way from STOPPING us going to them!

Now on my second thought about "everything wrong with brawl" a small problem but still i do thing it exist are the enemy wave composition and i will give examples:

1)At the start first round you pick a card which comes with a predetermined set of units , now all good so far but what happens is the NPC wave has air units so now you are forced into some kind of an anti air so you can kill that unit.

I suggest not having air units on the first round at all!

2)Overall what makes brawl not as fun as it could be is the NPC waves , and the reason is because each wave is kinda forcing you into a specific unit composition in order to counter it and that takes the fun away.

Honestly i don't know about you (the other people playing this game) but i wouldn't mind just having a four people FFA in brawl with no NPC units.

That's all i had to say i hope the developers give some feedback or there thoughts on this topic which i am sure troubles a lot of people at the higher and maybe lower MMR.

Edit: i just had another idea how you can fix the problem of people avoiding there waves!!
You could cut in half the size of the unit placing spots - cut the half back or make it another shape.

Take care and have a nice day!

[Whispdragoon62]

Agreed. Maybe a Brawl Lite mode where the AI just uses terrible compositions like fangs and sledgehammers to level up.

I dread specific waves of enemies, like when I'm doing marksmen and have to fight the super worms. I get nightmares.

You have to read carefully their abilities that they are essentially constantly spamming crawlers and so you need tons of chaff clear.

[Robin]

I only played Brawl a couple times but what made me quit soon is the insane difference between AI waves. Like, I was first by 200 points, I get a large wave of incredibly strong enemies, the second one behind me gets 4 sledges. Like, the best play seems to be trying to stay second or third by a small margin and then just win big on the last turn, which is really bad design

[Edle]

Originally posted by Whispdragoon62:

Agreed. Maybe a Brawl Lite mode where the AI just uses terrible compositions like fangs and sledgehammers to level up.

I dread specific waves of enemies, like when I'm doing marksmen and have to fight the super worms. I get nightmares.

You have to read carefully their abilities that they are essentially constantly spamming crawlers and so you need tons of chaff clear.

Yes exactly that was my second point , you are forced into specific units in order to counter the wave and its sad cause it steers you of what you want to do in order to counter the actual player on your left that is going worms or wasp and its not only that player you have to counter but the one to your right and the one infront of you , so its impossible to counter all.

So having the computer on top of that is taking the fun away.

[Edle]

Originally posted by Robin:

I only played Brawl a couple times but what made me quit soon is the insane difference between AI waves. Like, I was first by 200 points, I get a large wave of incredibly strong enemies, the second one behind me gets 4 sledges. Like, the best play seems to be trying to stay second or third by a small margin and then just win big on the last turn, which is really bad design

Yes that is unbalanced 100% true , for example wave 3 is the strongest on the person with the highest points at that time and wave 6 is a boss wave for everyone.

The thing i don't understand is why do they have different units for each player!
Why don't they just make it the same wave for everyone so its fair, and of course they can keep rotating the composition of the NPC each wave.

[PerfectDark]

It seems like part of the skill to counter both the AI and the players to win the game You have some valid points about the teleport but the worm strat can be countered by placing units in the flank. A high lvl rhino card can really mess them up with final blitz. Also you did not mention factory spam in your post

[Edle]

Originally posted by PerfectDark:

It seems like part of the skill to counter both the AI and the players to win the game You have some valid points about the teleport but the worm strat can be countered by placing units in the flank. A high lvl rhino card can really mess them up with final blitz. Also you did not mention factory spam in your post

Yes all of them can be countered the teleport by placing you units at the back and the worms by placing units where the worms are , but my point was that people are avoiding how the game was supposed to be played.

I didn't mention factory spam cause i feel like this players are not avoiding any mechanic they are just build an OP unit , they do actually fight the waves - most of the time.

[Edle]

Originally posted by Edle:

Originally posted by PerfectDark:

It seems like part of the skill to counter both the AI and the players to win the game You have some valid points about the teleport but the worm strat can be countered by placing units in the flank. A high lvl rhino card can really mess them up with final blitz. Also you did not mention factory spam in your post

Yes all of them can be countered the teleport by placing you units at the back and the worms by placing units where the worms are , but my point was that people are avoiding how the game was supposed to be played.

I didn't mention factory spam cause i feel like this players are not avoiding any mechanic they are just build an OP unit , they do actually fight the waves - most of the time.

The balance of the game is another topic , overlord spam - worm spam - factory spam seems this units are indeed overpowered thought.

[just.dont.do.it]

Why is it a problem in the first place?
Killing AI units gives you both money and score. If a player evades AI, he loses that.

FFA is all about being 1st by the end of the final round (or getting 8K, but that's actually harder). It includes all sorts of backstab tactics just by design.

If I'd have to list weaker points of FFA, I'd go about things that are actually not balanced:

1) All starting specs have no handicap in FFA, yet much like 1v1 they aren't really equal. Economy-based specs in FFA tend to be notably stronger, while specs with a free unit - weaker.

2) Later rounds have only one big wave, focusing on current #1 player. Other 3 sides only get 8 sledges as opposition. But actually top 2 players are considered "winners" in FFA, so why there's only one wave? This often makes the fight for second place actually more problematic than the fight for the first place. It's not uncommon that the current #1 keeps being #1 just because other sides are fighting mostly equally while he keeps racking the score from neutral kills.

3) Neutral waves are almost always exceptionally great against chaff units - this makes it very hard to use chaff meaningfully in FFA: it'll all die to neutrals and will barely participate in a battle between players. Only summon-based chaff works.

4) Time- and position- based effects are extremely devaluated in FFA. Photon will run out. Acid and fire, unless used in a really controllable fashion, will wreck your own units.

[glythe]

Originally posted by Edle:

Hello everyone here i will list everything that i believe is wrong with the brawl at this stage but first il explain what is happening in brawl.

I would never play FFA again without one fundamental change which is an ironclad rule in the "normal mode".

Everyone gets the same base money per round and this is only modified by specialists,unit sales or purchased cards.

[Arxel_z]

AI forced you to go heavy anti-swarm, then suddenly next wave is all airunits lol

[Arxel_z]

ohh and rank 4 enemy units that counter you comp at round 2, nice AI

[Arxel_z]

so i kept getting back stab at round 9 after leading by far. So i decided to destroy my own units at round 9, using nuke and move order into one place. Then the enemy proceed to decimate everyone and i got to kept my score lol. kinda funny lol

[Eldritch Panda]

Here's the real problem with brawl. I've noticed mostly players in 101 region will often que together by declining until they get a game together in the US region. One player will do nothing but perma flank and spam abilities, and the other will build regularly. I don't see it often, but it's always the same 2 people doing it I've come across.

[Edle]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Why is it a problem in the first place?
Killing AI units gives you both money and score. If a player evades AI, he loses that.

FFA is all about being 1st by the end of the final round (or getting 8K, but that's actually harder). It includes all sorts of backstab tactics just by design.

If I'd have to list weaker points of FFA, I'd go about things that are actually not balanced:

1) All starting specs have no handicap in FFA, yet much like 1v1 they aren't really equal. Economy-based specs in FFA tend to be notably stronger, while specs with a free unit - weaker.

2) Later rounds have only one big wave, focusing on current #1 player. Other 3 sides only get 8 sledges as opposition. But actually top 2 players are considered "winners" in FFA, so why there's only one wave? This often makes the fight for second place actually more problematic than the fight for the first place. It's not uncommon that the current #1 keeps being #1 just because other sides are fighting mostly equally while he keeps racking the score from neutral kills.

3) Neutral waves are almost always exceptionally great against chaff units - this makes it very hard to use chaff meaningfully in FFA: it'll all die to neutrals and will barely participate in a battle between players. Only summon-based chaff works.

4) Time- and position- based effects are extremely devaluated in FFA. Photon will run out. Acid and fire, unless used in a really controllable fashion, will wreck your own units.

Hey , the way i see it is as an exploit , avoiding your own wave and forcing the player next to you to fight it which will result in you getting weaker.
Getting money is not the most important thing people win with factory builds and worm builds without almost ever killing there wave, its just the combo they build is very strong.

And again nothing wrong in building what you like but at least play the game as it was intended.

Now to your later points i wont talk about balance cause i find it extremely hard to balance a game for FFA , it would have to be a separate balance from 1vs1 for it to work.

To your second point i would like to say that its not guarantee that the second player will gain points , it has been many times where you lose points , it depends on the MMR of the other player.

[Edle]

Originally posted by Eldritch Panda:

Here's the real problem with brawl. I've noticed mostly players in 101 region will often que together by declining until they get a game together in the US region. One player will do nothing but perma flank and spam abilities, and the other will build regularly. I don't see it often, but it's always the same 2 people doing it I've come across.

I must say i been in games where one player used his entire army to flank me , i don't know if he was playing with someone else or not and there is no way for me to prove it.
All i want is for people to fight there waves and stop playing like cowards cheesing there way into victory.