Thoughts on EMP tech?

[Beta_Krogoth]

Hey everyone. I've recently started playing 1v1s online and i'm very much enjoying the game. I started at around 500 mmr in 1v1s and i've risen to 1000, don't feel myself stopping yet so we'll see where it goes! I've been watching lots of replays and content and I wondered what people thought of EMP tech in general? I played a couple of games where EMP stormcallers were absolutely devastating and I know I didn't respect them very much prior to that, so it was a learning experience. But coming from a balance perspective, do you think EMP is a balanced tech?

I like teching my units, so naturally, I don't like EMP very much, but a tech that invalidates other techs (All of them) does seem a little unfair. I understand the tech is to help crush super-carry units who are running amok but the game already has multiple "unit killers" such as steel balls and melting points. I don't know how I feel about EMP disabling all tech plus slowing, but I also have played games where EMP was functionally useless. So its situational, for sure. But the times where it does shine, does it shine too bright?

I'm unsure, personally. I know I dislike it, but that doesn't mean its unbalanced. Let me know your thoughts. If I was to balance it, I would have it disable a random tech at first but maybe build with more EMP damage? Not sure. I know photon coating protects from EMP, is a boat with photon coating as support a good counter?

[M.D. Geist]

people often complaain here it shines too bright and then it turns out, they invested in highly teched mono spam. That is the one thing emp is realy good against.
Like you said, in 1vs1, emp is highly situational. So many players don't expect it and start shouting when their "sure strategy" starts to crumble. But in other matches, where you don't need it, the emp user often wishes for that one other upgrade they had to take out (well, at least I do).

[Pomptime]

EMP means that all other upgrades for this unit goes up the price. In 1v1 it's a pretty big investment. So, it's used vs people that heavy invest in 1 unit type and also buy techs only for that unit, which is already bad. Or vs total Cheese, like your opponent trying to flank you with exploding Rhinos or something like that.

Also remember, that if unit with EMP dies or shots don't connect, - it's no longer EMPing anything. You've mentioned Stormcallers, which are high range AOE Artillery unit, which is very strong on it's own. That's why Anti-Missile devices and anti-missile tech on Sabers and War Factory exist. No rockets connecting, - no damage, EMP is useless.

If you watch high mmr games, noone spams EMP ever. It's a very niche technology for a narrow range of moments.

[glythe]

Originally posted by Beta_Krogoth:

I like teching my units, so naturally, I don't like EMP very much, but a tech that invalidates other techs (All of them) does seem a little unfair. I understand the tech is to help crush super-carry units who are running amok but the game already has multiple "unit killers" such as steel balls and melting points. I don't know how I feel about EMP disabling all tech plus slowing, but I also have played games where EMP was functionally useless. So its situational, for sure. But the times where it does shine, does it shine too bright?

One of the reasons EMP exists is because certain units such as Steel Balls have the potential to "run away" with the game. You give them range, some levels and hp drain and they might be unkillable unless you can turn off their techs.

In the same situation you could buy into a unit you have not been using - let's say wasps and you buy EMP on them. Now the steel balls might die very quickly if they cant health leech. You spent money to make me spend money and that's a balanced trade.

Originally posted by Pomptime:

If you watch high mmr games, noone spams EMP ever. It's a very niche technology for a narrow range of moments.

This really is the tell that EMP is fine. It's something you have to plan for when you're trying to rise in the MMR ranks. A number of low/medium ranked players for example love to spam Arclights; yes they can carry but they become worthless if they get hit by EMP. That's part of what keeps units balanced.

EMP even has a balanced place in 4 player FFA because the boss units come with 3-4 abilities and they are much weaker if you can turn those off.

[Purple Sauce]

EMP is an absolutely broken tech but it's a reactive measure, not one that is spammed. If you can't hit the unit that you need to hit with the EMPs it's useless. If you aren't at least at a stalemate already you're probably going to lose harder due to them having more manpower. This game doesn't have any comeback mechanics so once you start losing it's pretty much over.

[Bilbeman]

I think the only time EMP gets annoying is in the Melting Point mirror match, where EMP barrage grants a huge amount of tempo. In general it's fine to have EMP available, especially on highly targeted units like the marksman/phoenix, where it serves as a counter to massive regen or very particular tech-based strategies like degen beam Wraith, self-destruct Rhino, etc. In general preemptive EMP is a losing move. If you are playing the game properly you usually don't commit to technologies until your opponent is committed into something that makes the tech worthwhile, so EMP is relegated to countering a counter, so to speak.

[RabidHobbit]

Originally posted by M.D. Geist:

highly teched mono spam. That is the one thing emp is realy good against.

Originally posted by Pomptime:

it's used vs people that heavy invest in 1 unit type and also buy techs only for that unit

Can you guys elaborate? I can't seem to figure out why EMP is better against someone who only techs a single unit type than someone who techs all their units. Won't the EMP take out the tech of whatever it hits?

[83athom]

Originally posted by RabidHobbit:

Originally posted by M.D. Geist:

highly teched mono spam. That is the one thing emp is realy good against.

Originally posted by Pomptime:

it's used vs people that heavy invest in 1 unit type and also buy techs only for that unit

Can you guys elaborate? I can't seem to figure out why EMP is better against someone who only techs a single unit type than someone who techs all their units. Won't the EMP take out the tech of whatever it hits?

If they also have a spammed unit without techs, like say Crawlers or Fangs, then the EMP likely will be wasted shooting at units it doesn't really have an affect against. Plus the tech is predicated on shooting a unit to have an effect; this is fine if the "Unit" is a single model like a Wraith or Scorpion but is significantly less impactful against a multi-model unit like Wasps or Sledges. Hell, the only time you'd actually want EMP when fighting Sledges for instance is if they took Damage Share (which is rare beyond beginner MMR) but you don't want to place Balls or MP for whatever reason.

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by RabidHobbit:

Originally posted by M.D. Geist:

highly teched mono spam. That is the one thing emp is realy good against.

Originally posted by Pomptime:

it's used vs people that heavy invest in 1 unit type and also buy techs only for that unit

Can you guys elaborate? I can't seem to figure out why EMP is better against someone who only techs a single unit type than someone who techs all their units. Won't the EMP take out the tech of whatever it hits?

It's not entirely true, emp can be a good tech against a lot of single tech units as well. Like removing leveled up armor/regen or turning back aoe rhinos into single target. The slow also helps against aggression.

But in a crude way, turning off 1200 worth of tech produces more value than turning off 300 worth in tech, in theory.