4 player brawl, cheaters ?

[Zorro]

Hello developers,
after playing 40 to 50 battles in the new 4 player brawl mode, some oberservations caught my eye:
- In the last rounds of combats, every other player attacks me. Statically this should happen every 1/4 game. But it happens about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time.
- The attacks are not based on my rank. The attacks happen when I am rank 1,2,3 or 4.
- The attacks happen unprovoked. I dont play event cards on other players. I dont play flanks on any one.

From my point of view, that's weird. Please implement methods to investigate on this topic, e.g. tracking of IP adresses, the same list of 3 accounts showing up frequently in the same game, use of disposal accounts to bolster a third account.
Sometimes when this happens, I noticed this: After searching for players, a battle screen appears for a second. Then the screen disappears because someone has quit the battle. Just a second later, the same battle screen pops up. Just one player name changed. Usually this is the player that will win the battle supported by the two other players. Usually the time waiting for a 4 player brawl battle is about 20 - 40 seconds. But in this case, the second wait itme is less than a second.

Please give a feedback when you have implemented proper methods to identify cheaters. Thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Zorro

[Rhonox]

Lol?

[Miezekotz]

Aluhut ist ein guter Hut.

[hypadao]

It is not "weird", it is a viable strategy. There are two possibilities:

-You have the best comp in the lobby, so everyone wants to stop you despite your rank because if they don't shut you down, they can't win.
-You are really weak, so the other players decide to crush you because it's better to let the stronger players fight among themselves and clean up the rest.

So this happens not because of your enemies, but because of your playstyle. If you plan to crush the last round, don't expect people to do nothing about it.
You are clearly underestimating your opponents, and try to disuade them by reacting to what they are doing, because otherwise you are just asking to be rolled.

[Kopernik]

sorry to say but there might be some truth in this.

if you are weakest then there is absolutly no reason to cripple you more since you might lose that is NOT way of thinking of players in competitive game ! unless they never wanted to win in 1st place

2 i had similar problems when i see nr 1 try to stop him and in return i got attacked by 3 other players and im in 2nd or even 3rd

and for some reason this never happens when im in 1st place i got absolutly demolished by others in last 2 rounds with no mercy

really strange movment in this mode is really annoing but tracking and all those hard counters are not really helping

hiding coulors and nicks might repair situation

maybe hide mode where no one knows where others are placed would be very helpfull unless its a one player with smurf's accounts that at play here but player base is smaller in comparison and those smurfs are easy to recognise usually

just to make cheaters a little sad there were games where i was attack by all and still win XD

[hypadao]

Originally posted by Kopernik:

hiding coulors and nicks might repair situation

That would remove most of the strategy from the mode. You are asking for the "all winning comp" to win the game at the end, but this is not what the new game mode is about.

View it this way:
-Either everyone tries to have the best "all winning comp" on their side of the map by packing the biggest amount of titans and hoping for the best.
-Or everyone actually tries to play the game by dissuading the other players from attacking them with counter strategies (what the game is about).

A player who ignores others and only plays on their side of the map should be punished for it. Therefore, the complaint of the OP is a sign that the game design of the new mode is working as intended.

[Kopernik]

Originally posted by hypadao:

Originally posted by Kopernik:

hiding coulors and nicks might repair situation

That would remove most of the strategy from the mode. You are asking for the "all winning comp" to win the game at the end, but this is not what the new game mode is about.

did you just literally admitted to cheating ? how seeing mi nick is givining you a STRATEGY ?? you should fight yourself not with friends and smurf accounts

and you dont really have to hide my nick:
- before entering game dont show nicks anly after its impossible to leave show who are you fighting against (before reaviling nicks show only mmr and combat power) this will stop ppl looking for specific friends
-in battle dont show where are others - shows nicks but not the color they are

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Kopernik:

sorry to say but there might be some truth in this.

if you are weakest then there is absolutly no reason to cripple you more since you might lose that is NOT way of thinking of players in competitive game ! unless they never wanted to win in 1st place

There usually are many good reasons to do so.

If you are a neighbor then your army is an obstacle. There are many situations were I would invest to remove you if that would help me more than having you around. I'd even nuke you, even if you are last place.

[Kopernik]

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Originally posted by Kopernik:

sorry to say but there might be some truth in this.

if you are weakest then there is absolutly no reason to cripple you more since you might lose that is NOT way of thinking of players in competitive game ! unless they never wanted to win in 1st place

There usually are many good reasons to do so.

If you are a neighbor then your army is an obstacle. There are many situations were I would invest to remove you if that would help me more than having you around. I'd even nuke you, even if you are last place.

and waste chance to gain exp with destroying me either way ? waste nuke 450 credits and gain nothing when you destroy me and make yourself stronger ?

the only reason i could think of is if i had a lot of fire and you play fang spam but other wise i do know you would concentraite on op that gives you trouble rather than waste time with someone that only makes you stronger

[hypadao]

Originally posted by Kopernik:

did you just literally admitted to cheating ? how seeing mi nick is givining you a STRATEGY ?? you should fight yourself not with friends and smurf accounts

No one does it, that's my point, and I gave good reasons why I would (like Arti_Sel) nuke the 4th player.
Boosting in a 4-player brawl seems really impractical since you need a lot of accounts at the same rank, so I don't believe this is what is happening.
And OP explicitly says that this is something that happens on the last round. If it was boosting, why would they start doing it in the last round? That makes no sense.

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Kopernik:

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

There usually are many good reasons to do so.

If you are a neighbor then your army is an obstacle. There are many situations were I would invest to remove you if that would help me more than having you around. I'd even nuke you, even if you are last place.

and waste chance to gain exp with destroying me either way ? waste nuke 450 credits and gain nothing when you destroy me and make yourself stronger ?

If I make myself stronger I gain something. Also it's a nuke, if I can time it so that it can be used again in the last or second last round then even better.

Originally posted by Kopernik:

the only reason i could think of is if i had a lot of fire and you play fang spam but other wise i do know you would concentraite on op that gives you trouble rather than waste time with someone that only makes you stronger

I don't really care what composition you play, I just assess if you are more worth alive than dead and then I decide according to that. Usually it's just 100 on a set of crawlers to win a round, or maybe a rhino drop. And because of it I have more army left to fight the real threat. Nothing personal.

[Kopernik]

Originally posted by hypadao:

Originally posted by Kopernik:

did you just literally admitted to cheating ? how seeing mi nick is givining you a STRATEGY ?? you should fight yourself not with friends and smurf accounts

No one does it, that's my point, and I gave good reasons why I would (like Arti_Sel) nuke the 4th player.
Boosting in a 4-player brawl seems really impractical since you need a lot of accounts at the same rank, so I don't believe this is what is happening.
And OP explicitly says that this is something that happens on the last round. If it was boosting, why would they start doing it in the last round? That makes no sense.

i also belive that it's more truble than worth to make more account only to win this mode, thou you only need one more since 3 would be impossible or maybe not

also ppl for some reason PAY's a lot of money for cheats and so on so impractical for us not for ppl that have more ambition than skills that's why i dont daupt this is happening

also please answer me how knowing my nick gives you strategy ?? as for now this proof's for cheating here

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Originally posted by Kopernik:

I don't really care what composition you play, I just assess if you are more worth alive than dead and then I decide according to that. Usually it's just 100 on a set of crawlers to win a round, or maybe a rhino drop. And because of it I have more army left to fight the real threat. Nothing personal.

ok we have really teorytycal talk here. if you destroys me every round taking my exp would you really muke me when other player massacres your units ? i think not you would massacre me and nuke more dangerous opponent winning it all

if i'm weak vs you and other guy is strong vs you a little more units would change nothing on the other side nuke annihilating he's side would give you victory so unles cheating or trolling attacking much weaker player is not sensible

also if it's one player stoping you it would not be sus it's when 3 players attack you that becomes strange why 1st place in front of me would trow a nuke at me when im 3 or 4th there are 2 other players closer to me ? and to him and those 2 are real danger for him here

[hypadao]

Originally posted by Kopernik:

also please answer me how knowing my nick gives you strategy ?? as for now this proof's for cheating here

if i know you are an overloard movement beacon spamer i will adapt my strategie for you absolutly

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Kopernik:

ok we have really teorytycal talk here. if you destroys me every round taking my exp would you really muke me when other player massacres your units ? i think not you would massacre me and nuke more dangerous opponent winning it all

If I can make a small investment with a big return then yeah, even if I'm already massacring you.

So like one possible scenario is that I'm sorta behind and gotta make a big play to win, so maybe I gamble that someone else will use the nuke on the lead and I use my nuke on you.

Or maybe I don't need to use nuke on the lead if he is getting destroyed by neutrals, so I nuke you and have more units to clean up neutrals with.

Originally posted by Kopernik:

if i'm weak vs you and other guy is strong vs you a little more units would change nothing on the other side nuke annihilating he's side would give you victory so unles cheating or trolling attacking much weaker player is not sensible

also if it's one player stoping you it would not be sus it's when 3 players attack you that becomes strange why 1st place in front of me would trow a nuke at me when im 3 or 4th there are 2 other players closer to me ? and to him and those 2 are real danger for him here

I'm just telling you how it is. Some people will just kill you even if you are weak, it's not because of cheating and there is no grand conspiracy to ♥♥♥♥ over you and that other guy in 4v4.

[Kopernik]

Originally posted by hypadao:

Originally posted by Kopernik:

also please answer me how knowing my nick gives you strategy ?? as for now this proof's for cheating here

if i know you are an overloard movement beacon spamer i will adapt my strategie for you absolutly

AM I now ? do you know ? i dont beliveyou would have any adventege in this until ... maybe top 10 players ? ... thou they like to change their strats often so it's not really working, being real here how many players do you know and how many would you even renember ? preatty hardcore this would be

and nicks are to be hidden until it's impossible to cancel match so cheaters would have harder time to make 4way coop game by canceling until they see right players

also due to patches strats change often so even if im aggro player today i might be standart player tommorow after patch so it's not really helping a lot in long shot

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Originally posted by Kopernik:

ok we have really teorytycal talk here. if you destroys me every round taking my exp would you really muke me when other player massacres your units ? i think not you would massacre me and nuke more dangerous opponent winning it all

If I can make a small investment with a big return then yeah, even if I'm already massacring you.

So like one possible scenario is that I'm sorta behind and gotta make a big play to win, so maybe I gamble that someone else will use the nuke on the lead and I use my nuke on you.

Or maybe I don't need to use nuke on the lead if he is getting destroyed by neutrals, so I nuke you and have more units to clean up neutrals with.

Originally posted by Kopernik:

if i'm weak vs you and other guy is strong vs you a little more units would change nothing on the other side nuke annihilating he's side would give you victory so unles cheating or trolling attacking much weaker player is not sensible

also if it's one player stoping you it would not be sus it's when 3 players attack you that becomes strange why 1st place in front of me would trow a nuke at me when im 3 or 4th there are 2 other players closer to me ? and to him and those 2 are real danger for him here

I'm just telling you how it is. Some people will just kill you even if you are weak, it's not because of cheating and there is no grand conspiracy to ♥♥♥♥ over you and that other guy in 4v4.

how is nuke small investment ? there are no small investments in this game managing your economy is core.

true there might be no conspiracy here but the fact that this happens way too often is making me sus. there's also might be troll game here to consider.

and by gambling that someone else will take care of your problem is exacly opposite of what happes that makes us sus

in 1st place ! if you nuke left side and your right side is nuked by other player then it's "normal" but if you are 2nd and have no chance vs 1st due to unit composition and still nuke 4th or 3rd place with 2 other players then something stinks (please dont write now that MAYBE someone just tried to keep 2nd place rather than use nuke to try win 1st place )

also as i wrote above hide nicks only unitil its impossible to cancel math show only mmr and combat power, i belive it's duable and would not impackt the game itself if you dont want to play game with lower mmr lvl then you would still see it

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Kopernik:

how is nuke small investment ? there are no small investments in this game managing your economy is core.

It's just like 300 smt, if I can clean up neutrals I'll get at least 700. Nukes are good.

Originally posted by Kopernik:

true there might be no conspiracy here but the fact that this happens way too often is making me sus. there's also might be troll game here to consider.

and by gambling that someone else will take care of your problem is exacly opposite of what happes that makes us sus

I'm not basing my plays on what makes other players sus.

Originally posted by Kopernik:

in 1st place ! if you nuke left side and your right side is nuked by other player then it's "normal" but if you are 2nd and have no chance vs 1st due to unit composition and still nuke 4th or 3rd place with 2 other players then something stinks (please dont write now that MAYBE someone just tried to keep 2nd place rather than use nuke to try win 1st place )

Eh it's extremely rare that I find myself in positions were I don't see some way to win. I'm a very optimistic person.

Originally posted by Kopernik:

also as i wrote above hide nicks only unitil its impossible to cancel math show only mmr and combat power, i belive it's duable and would not impackt the game itself if you dont want to play game with lower mmr lvl then you would still see it

I don't really think this is an issue. But the devs should hide nicks and mmr/combat pwr in all game modes just to avoid people cancelling games based on mmr.