Mechabellum

Mechabellum

Ikuorai May 24, 2024 @ 2:03am
Experimental Units in Survival
I don't know if it's just me, but it's very very annoying having these new 'experimental' units. They are often incredibly imbalanced.

If you cannot get the unit, there is no reason for the enemy to have it. If you can have it, then by all means, allow the enemy to have it.

It doesn't add anything fun to the game, in my opinion.
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Pestbrook May 24, 2024 @ 10:27pm 
I agree with the opinion that the random difficulty of survival mode in Mechabellum is a great idea. However, I also agree that the experimental units can sometimes create impossible counter combos, and I don't think it's because I'm a bad player. The random rolls are just too unpredictable, and sometimes the combinations of units that are created are simply unbeatable.
terve886 May 25, 2024 @ 9:38am 
The experimental units are there to spice things up as well as to increase the challenge of the survival mode.
That being said, some of the experimental units are straight up BS. I particularly dislike how some of them have all 3 traits of superiour range, crowd control and single target capabilities such as the experimental hackers. They even hit air units FFS. You have very little tools of actually countering one, since no matter what you throw at it, it will likely get thrown back at you threefold.

On the other hand, some of the experimental units are nicely balanced and offer interesting challenges or even potential weakpoints the player can use. Experimental marskmen for example are extra weak to armor upgrades, since their base damage is much lower compared to base marksmen, making it possible to tank them with combination of repair and armor. It is also nice to have rounds where experimental variants are combined with their base ones when they have different unit focus. The experimental marksmen wave with the base assault marksmen mix up is once again a good example.

Still, the overral biggest problem with the experimental variants seems to be the range. They are very high priority targets, but there is barely any ways of targetting them. On the other hand, some of the experiementals that come at you, such as experimental steels balls are also very rough to take out with their huge health pool in combination to having the repeating photon emission while breaking into normal steel balls which further break into crawlers which break into acid, but at least they are still doable if you have enough horde clear to burn the crawlers... preferrably before your horde wipers get smelted by the steel balls themselves.
LOWLIIFE Jun 6, 2024 @ 7:45am 
Originally posted by terve886:
The experimental units are there to spice things up as well as to increase the challenge of the survival mode.
That being said, some of the experimental units are straight up BS. I particularly dislike how some of them have all 3 traits of superiour range, crowd control and single target capabilities such as the experimental hackers. They even hit air units FFS. You have very little tools of actually countering one, since no matter what you throw at it, it will likely get thrown back at you threefold.

On the other hand, some of the experimental units are nicely balanced and offer interesting challenges or even potential weakpoints the player can use. Experimental marskmen for example are extra weak to armor upgrades, since their base damage is much lower compared to base marksmen, making it possible to tank them with combination of repair and armor. It is also nice to have rounds where experimental variants are combined with their base ones when they have different unit focus. The experimental marksmen wave with the base assault marksmen mix up is once again a good example.

Still, the overral biggest problem with the experimental variants seems to be the range. They are very high priority targets, but there is barely any ways of targetting them. On the other hand, some of the experiementals that come at you, such as experimental steels balls are also very rough to take out with their huge health pool in combination to having the repeating photon emission while breaking into normal steel balls which further break into crawlers which break into acid, but at least they are still doable if you have enough horde clear to burn the crawlers... preferrably before your horde wipers get smelted by the steel balls themselves.

Why on earth do we need any form of "increase the challenge" on survival when majority of players can't pass it on the easiest mode? That is the point.... the experimental units increase the challenge on a gamemode that is already unfairly challenging due to other reasons. There is literally no reason to add even MORE unbalanced challenge. We already can't keep up with the amount of units and varying unit placement thrown at us. What possible good reason is there to give the enemy units with unattainable superiority? It's baffling that there are human beings alive who think this is good. Maybe keep the experimental units for the "insane" difficulties or something. The fact that we are getting swarmed by units that we could never attain on the easiest possible difficulty is insane to me. This is bad.
terve886 Jun 8, 2024 @ 8:55am 
Originally posted by LOWLIIFE:
Originally posted by terve886:
The experimental units are there to spice things up as well as to increase the challenge of the survival mode.
That being said, some of the experimental units are straight up BS. I particularly dislike how some of them have all 3 traits of superiour range, crowd control and single target capabilities such as the experimental hackers. They even hit air units FFS. You have very little tools of actually countering one, since no matter what you throw at it, it will likely get thrown back at you threefold.

On the other hand, some of the experimental units are nicely balanced and offer interesting challenges or even potential weakpoints the player can use. Experimental marskmen for example are extra weak to armor upgrades, since their base damage is much lower compared to base marksmen, making it possible to tank them with combination of repair and armor. It is also nice to have rounds where experimental variants are combined with their base ones when they have different unit focus. The experimental marksmen wave with the base assault marksmen mix up is once again a good example.

Still, the overral biggest problem with the experimental variants seems to be the range. They are very high priority targets, but there is barely any ways of targetting them. On the other hand, some of the experiementals that come at you, such as experimental steels balls are also very rough to take out with their huge health pool in combination to having the repeating photon emission while breaking into normal steel balls which further break into crawlers which break into acid, but at least they are still doable if you have enough horde clear to burn the crawlers... preferrably before your horde wipers get smelted by the steel balls themselves.

Why on earth do we need any form of "increase the challenge" on survival when majority of players can't pass it on the easiest mode? That is the point.... the experimental units increase the challenge on a gamemode that is already unfairly challenging due to other reasons. There is literally no reason to add even MORE unbalanced challenge. We already can't keep up with the amount of units and varying unit placement thrown at us. What possible good reason is there to give the enemy units with unattainable superiority? It's baffling that there are human beings alive who think this is good. Maybe keep the experimental units for the "insane" difficulties or something. The fact that we are getting swarmed by units that we could never attain on the easiest possible difficulty is insane to me. This is bad.
You see, before the experimental units were added, there was different types of super hard rounds involving the units that weren't as interesting. The super experimental marksman wave with the super shooting squad perk and assault marksmen used to be just a plain spam of super high level elite marksmen (among other sniper perks) that simply beat you with massive range and dps.

It wasn't any easier than the current experimental units rounds, but it sure was much more boring design wise. The experimental units are absolutely good for the game mode. The whole point of the survival mode is to be challenge to beat.

I do agree some of the experimental units are too well rounded, but the existence of the experimental units itself is not an issue. The survival mode is much easier than it used to before its rework and introduction of the experimental units. You used to get no resources back at all if your units lost all their lives and your unit pool was random selection of random units with random level, making it impossible to make consistent strategies using X, Y and Z troops as you literally would not be able to predict what you are getting, meaning that most unit upgrades were huge waste since you might not get another chance to recruit the same unit again in 5 rounds.

The easiest survival difficulties are also very manageable and the more 'insane' experimental units like experimentla warfactory's are already locked in the insanity difficulties.
Muh macht die Kuh (Banned) Jun 9, 2024 @ 1:16am 
they are easy

sounds like a skill problem
UnknownAl Jun 20, 2024 @ 7:36am 
well if they are so easy, tell me how to defeat the experimental rhino army... they are so big and deal so much damage that one swing takes down half your army.
I know you are meant to have flyings to counter it, but your whole army can't be flying if you want to win other rounds...
wrathtribe Jun 20, 2024 @ 2:59pm 
Originally posted by UnknownAl:
well if they are so easy, tell me how to defeat the experimental rhino army... they are so big and deal so much damage that one swing takes down half your army.
I know you are meant to have flyings to counter it, but your whole army can't be flying if you want to win other rounds...
Would suggest some ranged EM, to slow them down and disable their techs.

Survival is hard, really hard (insane 2-4). One of the most efficient strategies is to go for speedy units (crawlers, balls, mustangs, wasps, phoenixes - overlords, wraith and typhoons can be considered too as well as stormcallers for support) and go offensive (rush tower and flank aggressively) on one side and defensive on the other tower. Crawlers must be teched with replicate and then speed/damage. Mustangs with anti-missile can greatly help (vs random missiles too). balls with mechdiv is also recommended. If you take stormcallers, you might want to avoid fire (self defeating) and take the techs that increase speed, range and EM.

You might consider taking giants with spawners, that's up to you but I would advice to stick to cheaper units and make them elite instead (sell anything that does not fit the strat). Wraith with degenerative aura can do wonders to support your troops.

If you manage to consistently take the tower on the side you attack down fast enough, then you will do enough damage to win the round with minimal losses (which means more resources). Use you level ups to restore durability (unless you have enough money and are confident that unit will get another level up within two rounds) and prioritize deployments and techs over level ups.

Then it is about luck, patience and perseverance (neither of which I have lol). It might take (quite) a few tries and the favor of RNG gods to get to the end round (which there is a chance you lose, but if you did well in the previous rounds, then you should not take lethal damage even if you lose the last). If you are lucky, you get the right cards and the right AI compositions. Remember to diversify your army, you need a lot of crawlers, but you also need something that can kill/neutralize any flamer unit really fast to support them.
Last edited by wrathtribe; Jun 20, 2024 @ 3:11pm
UnknownAl Jun 21, 2024 @ 7:37am 
@wrargtribe, you can't do that they have photon shields
wrathtribe Jun 21, 2024 @ 8:58am 
Originally posted by UnknownAl:
@wrargtribe, you can't do that they have photon shields
Well. Haven't played survival for a while. Maybe use a moving beacon to distract them (make them follow a unit to waste the duration of photon shield) or use a moving beacon to put some space between them and your units by retreating, eventually sacrifice a cheap chaff unit or two to make them fight and waste time in the process.

As I said above though, from what I remember, survival is a lot about chance to get the right cards/units at the right time as well as the right composition. If you face some mini-vulcans early in the game and you went crawler mustangs, the run might be over before it even started. If you face those experimental rhino and they are on your offensive side, kill 80% of your army, then tough luck.

I tried several techniques, like using only units that regenerate and increase HP, using only giants that spawn minor units, using only flying units, etc... from all my attempts, the speedy builds I advised you to consider seems to give the most consistent results, but it is not working 100% of the time either.

The "insane" difficulty is appropriately named. If you don't have the resilience (to the frustration) and persistence to make the likely many attempts to beat those levels then, stick to lower difficulties. What else is there to say?
Last edited by wrathtribe; Jun 21, 2024 @ 9:06am
terve886 Jun 22, 2024 @ 12:35am 
Originally posted by UnknownAl:
well if they are so easy, tell me how to defeat the experimental rhino army... they are so big and deal so much damage that one swing takes down half your army.
I know you are meant to have flyings to counter it, but your whole army can't be flying if you want to win other rounds...
Oil is useful for slowing the main assault to buy time for your high dps units to bring the experimental rhino down. You still want some cheaper chaff units to stall them for couple if strikes.

Crawlers are generally very good at guarding the flanks when deployed to rear and also bolster as chaff lined nicely on rounds where flanks don't happen (like the rhino round), so you pretty much always want crawlers on every survival run. Add dps increasing upgrades to deal better with high health flanks as necessary and do get the replication module.

All flying units are also very viable in survival. Wasps and overlords are bit harder to use due to their low life threshold, but wasps still work very nicely when other similar speed grpund units are placed in front of them. Crawlers, phoenixes, rhinos, mustangs and steel balls are all 16 base speed units and should be deploed in the back in layers to block incoming attacks based on whether you need to tank low damage attacks (rhino with armor), low dps attacks (rhino with regen) or high damage attacks (crawlers to absorb hits for the rhino). Wasps, phoenixes and mustangs can follow behind the main line. You can pretty much use any tanking capable units. Wraiths with armor and regen also work nicely for covering wasps since it can only be aggroed by units that can target air.
Steel balls have very nice synergy as blockers for crawlers since they can get armor and ability to break into crawlers.

Overral any unit that can get regen and armor is super strong if you get one with high level as drop. Add extra health module to further boost the advantage from high level. Fortress with armor and repair module does the same thing.
HangryGerbil Jun 22, 2024 @ 12:43pm 
I like having them, but I do agree they need some balancing. A lot of times they are an instant loss.
Gasparatan Jul 14, 2024 @ 2:04pm 
I hate that i cant refund this game anymore,i thought in the beginning hey nice game on solo for fun premises is cool n such ... I am just frustrated now any and everytime i win all rounds till i hit round 8 Instagram loss -.-
applenta Jul 14, 2024 @ 11:51pm 
I tell you how i beat the rhinos and other experimental combos with weak anti air. If you are lucky, you could get a high level saucer, give it regenerate and armor, so weak anti air could not take it down, and it carried the round. Now the next problem was the hacker bot, usually, you could counter hack with your own hacker bot, but when it come to hacked air unit, your own hacker could not hack it back, thankfully my melting point took it down otherwise it would have carried the round against me, the saucer still bought me enough time for my long ranged attackers (melting point, scorpion, markman, storm caller) to take down all the experimental hacker bots. I saw the weakness in the composition, they are weak against crawler swarms so i bought a few of them for the round. Any way, the saucer trick against ground unit is still cheesing and i dont want to win that way again.

It took me several days to finally beat round 12 and unlock the next difficulty, it was frustrating and tiresome at first, but once i took careful observation, i discovered that i made bad decisions, wasting resources on wrong units and upgrades, i actually found the game so engaging to play, it looks like a RTS but it's actually chess pieces to be countered properly, where queen could still be taken down by pawns.

I tried to play other easy games and found them to be boring, tedious, not stimulating, what's the point of upgrading or leveling up if it makes no difference, still the same routine of beating the game, but man, picking the right upgrade and unit in this game makes the difference, it's like playing card, playing the wrong card and you lose.
Last edited by applenta; Jul 14, 2024 @ 11:58pm
Ikuorai Jul 17, 2024 @ 10:08pm 
i just want to be able to toggle experimental units on and off. Survival mode has no effect on anything, so let us decide how it stacks up. Let us turn experimental units on and off. Let us decide what units they get, what experimental ones they get, what traits they get if we want. Allow us to use it for practice and not just insane RNG ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Make the mode useful, and not just 'fun'. Or at least allow it to be fun again and not stupid RNG every second game where you have a fun comp that is interesting, but gets rolled by some units that don't even exist.
Argos Oct 5, 2024 @ 2:26am 
Lol, if this game was not trash enough they decided to make it even more trash by creating impossible levels. I wonder if there any mods to remove that units from the game or the only way to play is to use cheats whenever they spawn to pass the round and continue normal play after
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Date Posted: May 24, 2024 @ 2:03am
Posts: 15