Refund for us

[Not Ela]

If the game will go Free to Play and start selling skins we should get a refund for the game as we had no info on this when we bought the game!!!

[Easybeans]

It's all a conspiracy! Get these kids hooked on gambling and then they'll need a steady income to support it. Loosen child labor laws. Boom, they're back in the factories and mines in no time.

Or parents can, uh, parent.

[Tungdil12]

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

Publicado originalmente por Nijuyin:

the problem with lootboxes is that they are similar to gambling but wrapped up in a nice and fun gaming environment. but games are also played by children.

I don't think games have to be designed with children in mind.

Publicado originalmente por Nijuyin:

this means that lootboxes can (but not necessarily have to) foster gambling habbits early in the development stages of children. surely you can blame the "10 percent of gambling addicts" for being idiots and say they deserve it. but the question is when did such behavior start and how can we possibly avoid that.

It's not necessary for every cultural work to adhere to current cultural norms or avoid these very subjective non-physical harms. It is the parents job to make sure their kids don't consume harmful content. This is gamer mindset.

Censoring all culture to protect children is church-lady mindset.

Theres a reason that there are age restrictions to actual gambling.
If lootboxes come with the same age restrictions and ways to enforce them that is fine, otherwise its a decent point to be opposed to them.

Edit: Also are lootboxes really part of some "culture" according to you? Feels weird to say that.

[Rammstein]

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

Publicado originalmente por Nijuyin:

the problem with lootboxes is that they are similar to gambling but wrapped up in a nice and fun gaming environment. but games are also played by children.

I don't think games have to be designed with children in mind.

Publicado originalmente por Nijuyin:

this means that lootboxes can (but not necessarily have to) foster gambling habbits early in the development stages of children. surely you can blame the "10 percent of gambling addicts" for being idiots and say they deserve it. but the question is when did such behavior start and how can we possibly avoid that.

It's not necessary for every cultural work to adhere to current cultural norms or avoid these very subjective non-physical harms. It is the parents job to make sure their kids don't consume harmful content. This is gamer mindset.

Censoring all culture to protect children is church-lady mindset.

First off, not every game is 18+. This one isnt decided yet, but i dont see it higher than 12+.
So yes, when its 12+ it has to be designed with children in mind, thats the whole point.

"parents job to make sure their kids dont consume harmful content"... And again, whenever this game is rated, and its 12+, which it pretty obvious will be, there is no room for lootboxes.
(There is no room for lootboxes anywhere to be fair, even tho it seems its your "culture"?! )

[Arti_Sel]

Publicado originalmente por Tungdil12:

Edit: Also are lootboxes really part of some "culture" according to you? Feels weird to say that.

Publicado originalmente por Negan:

(There is no room for lootboxes anywhere to be fair, even tho it seems its your "culture"?! :steamlaughcry:)

This is some stupid ♥♥♥♥. I'm not defending lootboxes as part of any culture.

Maybe I should have been even more specific. Artistic expression doesn't have to adhere to ANY culture, current or otherwise. Or we might as well get mad about depicted violence and other immoral actions as well.

But beyond that we have randomized shops which are pretty much like lootboxes any way. The draft mechanic operates by the same reward mechanic that lootboxes does. The essence of gambling is a biochemical reaction in the brain that stems from repeatable rng with rewards.

If you want to be consistent with being anti-gambling for children, you should be mad about those things as well, but also every cardgame and dicegame because they also encourage gambling. And I'd respect if you guys held such a position, but you don't. You are just repeating game-journo propaganda from dorito-salesmen.

[Tungdil12]

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

Publicado originalmente por Tungdil12:

Edit: Also are lootboxes really part of some "culture" according to you? Feels weird to say that.

Publicado originalmente por Negan:

(There is no room for lootboxes anywhere to be fair, even tho it seems its your "culture"?! :steamlaughcry:)

This is some stupid ♥♥♥♥. I'm not defending lootboxes as part of any culture.

Maybe I should have been even more specific. Artistic expression doesn't have to adhere to ANY culture, current or otherwise. Or we might as well get mad about depicted violence and other immoral actions as well.

But beyond that we have randomized shops which are pretty much like lootboxes any way. The draft mechanic operates by the same reward mechanic that lootboxes does. The essence of gambling is a biochemical reaction in the brain that stems from repeatable rng with rewards.

If you want to be consistent with being anti-gambling for children, you should be mad about those things as well, but also every cardgame and dicegame because they also encourage gambling. And I'd respect if you guys held such a position, but you don't. You are just repeating game-journo propaganda from dorito-salesmen.

I actually think the randomized shop that we have right now is kinda dumb, and I would honestly prefer a normal shop with everything always on sale. I never thought about it through the gambling lense, but yeah I guess there are some similar aspects. The biggest difference to lootboxes woul probably be that you can get different rarity items in one and the same lootbox, which isnt the case with a randomized shop, so its less bad.

The difference to normal dice and card games i guess is that you dont pay with money for those games, different from poker for example. There is no money on the line.
Lootboxes as far as I understand are paid for with money, sometimes maybe ingame money but normaly with actual money.

[Arti_Sel]

Publicado originalmente por Tungdil12:

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

This is some stupid ♥♥♥♥. I'm not defending lootboxes as part of any culture.

Maybe I should have been even more specific. Artistic expression doesn't have to adhere to ANY culture, current or otherwise. Or we might as well get mad about depicted violence and other immoral actions as well.

But beyond that we have randomized shops which are pretty much like lootboxes any way. The draft mechanic operates by the same reward mechanic that lootboxes does. The essence of gambling is a biochemical reaction in the brain that stems from repeatable rng with rewards.

If you want to be consistent with being anti-gambling for children, you should be mad about those things as well, but also every cardgame and dicegame because they also encourage gambling. And I'd respect if you guys held such a position, but you don't. You are just repeating game-journo propaganda from dorito-salesmen.

I actually think the randomized shop that we have right now is kinda dumb, and I would honestly prefer a normal shop with everything always on sale.

Well, me too.

Publicado originalmente por Tungdil12:

I never thought about it through the gambling lense, but yeah I guess there are some similar aspects.

It's designed with a lot of potentially addictive elements in mind, there is also a level up mechanic that rewards spending, daily checking reward, etc. A lot of game design nowadays is made with addictive elements in mind, people just get mad about lootboxes because it's trendy.

Publicado originalmente por Tungdil12:

The biggest difference to lootboxes woul probably be that you can get different rarity items in one and the same lootbox, which isnt the case with a randomized shop, so its less bad.

This is bartering. And we do get different rarities in the items available in the shop btw. Just saying that messing around with the rarity wouldn't change anyones mind on lootboxes.

Publicado originalmente por Tungdil12:

The difference to normal dice and card games i guess is that you dont pay with money for those games, different from poker for example. There is no money on the line.
Lootboxes as far as I understand are paid for with money, sometimes maybe ingame money but normaly with actual money.

As long as kids don't have access to real money on the account, it shouldn't be a problem then.

All this said I'm not necessarily in favor of lootboxes, it's just that I absolutely hate whenever kids are used as a moral sledgehammer in whatever issue that pertains to grownups making their own decisions.

[TheAnimal]

I agree and I cant seriously believe the number of sheeple that fire back so violently when you in fact try to fight for their own rights!
Free to play should be free to play from start. Changing business model in the middle of the way shows two things:
- lack of clear strategy
- lack of players interest so they have to go free to expand player base.
This move is nothing new, but I never seen it bring success or anything good. The games which failed to get noticed as paid, continue to underperform as free to play as well. Only significant effect is that devs piss most of the people who paid for the game. Excluding dumheads, who happily pay for a free to play game, because they cant add one and one together...

[puschit]

Publicado originalmente por Arti_Sel:

Publicado originalmente por Tungdil12:

What exactly is the problem with lootboxes? Because they are gambling or sth?

I think like 90 percent of people are just repeating whatever they have heard or read somewhere else without giving it much thought.

Then there are like 10 percent of people who are weirdly obsessive about owning either very specific skins or all skins and they will spend obscene amounts of money chasing it and blame lootboxes for their mental.

Yeah, it's that.
Skins and stuff aka COSMETICS are just that - cosmetic things that don't give you any advantage during gameplay. The game and servers have to be financed somehow and I'd rather have cosmetics being sold than actual advantages like premium units, stat buffs, extra time etc. So, when they go cosmetics only, I won't question the way they do it. Subscription, loot boxes, DLC or door-to-door retailing, I don't care, because everything is optional. If you want to support the game you buy a skin, avatar or whatever. If want to be a cheapsakte and leecher, you can without having any drawbacks other than using basic skins. That's fair by all accounts and you should be glad that it is just cosmetics.

[Iso Koala]

Oh god some people.... I just cant understand some of the humans living on this planet.

[MIJAMIJAMIJA]

Publicado originalmente por Lord GabeN:

Publicado originalmente por Goblin:

"we intend to release as a Free to Play title in the future, with an array of systems and models to support the game long-term"

What did you think they were going to sell when they go f2p?

DLC? Sub?
Anything but micro-transaction. Wait for it they will start selling them out of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ loot box

why does it matter if there are purely cosmetic microtransactions in the game? serious question. its the most honest way a dev can monetize their game without messing up the fairness of f2p vs walletwarrior players

[♿HesMad--->]

1v1 me Arti I'll make you uninstall

[Esxhaton]

Publicado originalmente por Lord GabeN:

If the game will go Free to Play and start selling skins we should get a refund for the game as we had no info on this when we bought the game!!!

If you really believe you got scammed just submit a refund request to steam.

[boRZ]

bro sounds like he found crack from a lootbox.
does any game do lootboxes anymore other than mobile? lol

[Arti_Sel]

Publicado originalmente por ♿HesMad--->:

1v1 me Arti I'll make you uninstall

Ehh, why? Who are you? And how are you banned already?

[Seri]

As long as they rotate the skins in the credits shop im fine with this. But when they are only exlusive to real money I riot.