Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
My problem is that every single 100 cost unit has a very clear counter that kinda wrecks it. Because we have no way of immediately reaching backlines other than usables, marksmen kinda leave this category.
It also depends on the overall placement. My last game was against marksmen and mustangs as starting units. I defended deep, so the mustangs outpaced the marksmen and could easily be dealt with. After that the marksmen were easy to beat.
Not even with doubleshot to counter shields. Not even with 4 upgrades and tons of levels. Fangs, crawlers, or wasps can be easily gathered in much greater numbers.
If you can keep your swarming units (any) alive to fight the Marksman you can beat them no problem. Whether that is by putting something like a Fortress or a unit of Tanks to screen the swarms, or through flanking and other positioning, or even Shield Generators or simply having something to blow-up the source of AoE damage more quickly than they can kill your unit(s); for example using your own Stormcallers/Phoenix/Marksmen to kill the enemy Arclights before they can touch your swarms.
Another, less reliable, way to deal with marksmen is to take advantage of their limited mobility. They aren't just slow, but their range and attack speed makes them sit in one place for a long time. This means abilities, like Incendiary Bomb or the always-buyable Nuclear Missile can be used to take them and other back-line units out. Be careful using them against Pheonix though, as their Portable Shields can protect them from one-hit wonders like the Nuke, and Shield Generators might be deployed as a counter to this.
I won't say these options are foolproof, because every strategy (that I've found or heard of so far anyway) has some means to be countered. This is a good thing, because it includes dealing with a mass of Marksmen, and it means there is "always something" you can do to try and deal with a given situation. At the very least though, if the opponent is busy buying things to protect the Marksman, they are spending less on the Marksman units themselves that you're having such trouble with.
EDIT: Note about Phoenix... though the squad costs more (and thus more to upgrade as well) the per-mech cost is basically the same since you get two Phoenix per buy. In fact, this makes it easier (particularly late game) to mass up more Phoenix compared to Marksman, due the the recruitment limits (two Phoenix per recruitment vs. one Marksman). This, plus their potential ability to come back from death, can easily result in a far greater number of mechs to have to deal with (which many units can't even attack to begin with). While Marksman do generally beat Phoenix due to their longer range and double-shot, in the long-run the number of Phoenix could eventually overwhelm the number of Marksman just because of the recruitment cap... but most games don't last that long or focus on such a match-up.
My suggestion is high level units. If snipers cant clear fast enough they are dead.
You're mostly right. Vulcans are a very strong counter to most swarms (except Wasps), but they can potentially be distracted, or countered by Melting Point, Fortress, etc. Or they can be distracted by another unit long enough for your swarm to still be effective, such as with a nearer flanking unit pulling it out of position. If the Vulcan is forward placed they might get picked off relatively quickly by other units, if they are in the rear than your swarms will at least be an effective screen against the Marksman for a longer time, there are tradeoffs and ways to help make swarms effective against the odd Vulcan or two... and if they go very heavy so you can't kill or avoid them you try to pivot if you can, maybe with Wasps or something else entirely. Doesn't mean you'll win, but there are ways sometimes to deal with Vulcans even if you've got a lot of swarms out.
High level units are of course always good to go for (unless they just got hard-countered by a new placement, then it's a lower priority but still not terrible), but it's not always an option, especially if your opponent has an edge because of early success with their Marskman units and gained their levels already.
Those units do not work on a vulcan, in case people have forgetten, the vulcan has a %HP per second upgrade that literally was made to melt larger units. The vulcan is not a front line unit, it's a backline unit made to melt other tihings. It can, quite literally, kill anything that is not an air unit. As soon as I realized this the vulcan stopped being a waste of space.
So do Fangs and Wasps, it doesn't mean they (or a Fortress or Overlord spawning them) can take on all comers without losses... but if we're talking Tech... Ignite (and incendiary rockets) doesn't go through Barrier, and can be disabled by EM rockets from the Melting Point (or other units and abilities if present), or if the Vulcan is too busy dealing with swarm chaff (which both Fortress and Melting Point can spawn) they won't necessarily be igniting the big unit that's killing them anyway (though more likely with a Fortress/Fang combo, if the Barrier is dealt with). Ignite is also countered (for a limited time) by Photon Barriers as well, from an Overlord, Ability, or Equipment, or a Rhino flanking from the side and distracting your Vulcan(s).
Even without other Tech involved, the Ignite from a Vulcan won't take out a Melting Point without the Vulcan going down first, which at least protects any remaining swarm units and likely gives the Melting Point time to do more damage, and maybe live long enough to hit the enemy player if there's nothing else to kill.
Again, if they are in the back line behind the Marksmen, they won't be protecting your Marksman (let alone front line) as well, nor clearing swarms from being an effective screen (or Fangs and such from shooting the Marksman). If they are on the same position as Marksman, their shorter range will pull them ahead of the Marksman(effectively making them front-line (or a mid-fielder, but this conversation has been about the Marksman/Vulcan combo specifically, not accounting for other units, so the "middle" doesn't exist for this conversation, with other units in the mix that would naturally change what is good or bad based on what the actual front-line is, and whether or not Melting Points and Fortress are still appropriate, etc.)
Vulcans are good, and they obviously combo well with Marksman (even without spawning their own from Tech), but they aren't something that loses to only Air units like you seem to imply.
Those ignites are nothing like the vulcans which has 100% uptime 😂😂😂😂😂
I also did not imply that they only lose to air units at all. Why are you putting words in my mouth? You're saying to use these units like the vulcan will be the front line unit (which any smart player knows, the vulcan is not a front line unit it is a ranged DPS that you want to keep alive as long as possible). Bro really thinks the ignite from vulcan doesn't do damage, go into a practice lobby and make a a single meat shield in front of a vulcan like some fangs and watch how fast a fortress or melting dies.
I have no idea why so many idiots on these forums keep talking about 1 v 1 scenarios when this game isn't about 1 v 1s
If you don't want to go cheese and get Mustangs, phoenix hard counters Marks when upgraded with shield and revive. Assuming that you don't have swarms in front of them.
There's more than one shooter though. And they are cheaper. But whatever.
I listed Fortress and Melting Point as counters to Vulcans. You said: "they don't work." Thus implying that some of the main counters to Vulcans (aka, every other Giant), aren't counters. If you didn't mean it, that's fine, but it was indeed implied.
Specifically in relation to Marksman, they are forward units due to range limitations. Tech can alleviate that somewhat, but by that same token, a Fortress is a back-line DPS unit just as much as a Vulcan. A Fortress with Double-Shot can do a lot more damage to Tanks and the like than a Vulcan could, for example.
Here, you describe a 1 v 2 fight. "A Melting Point vs. Swarm + Vulcan" as example. Then follow up with:
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself to call yourself an idiot like this.
Take a Arclight and put it in front of your Fortress/Melting Point and the Vulcan with it's swarm dies a horrible death. That's the reality. Even if you put Fangs in front of a Fortress (which a Vulcan normally destroys easily) you can still come out ahead if you've got Barrier.
Yes, as I've been saying this entire time, it gets more complicated from there. A Marksman to counter the Arclight, Tanks, Stormcallers, or Barrier to counter the Marksman, etc. Or maybe you open up a flank against the Vulcan and now it's fighting a Melting Point on the side while your frontline swarms are now free to do their work without getting melted, then maybe a Beacon to try and keep the Vulcan on-task. It's a back-and-forth give and take, with each new development informing the next. But none of this changes the fact that a Fortress is a good counter to a Vulcan (though by no means the only) regardless of whether it has Ignite or not.
A Fortress, even without any Tech at all, will take out a Vulcan with Ignite without much issue... as long as you can deliver the unit. If you can't deliver the unit, that doesn't mean the Vulcan is no longer countered by that Fortress, it just means that there's something else countering the Fortress in it's place. And THAT is the game.
Figuring out not only which matchups are favorable, but also how to try and force them in your favor (and/or getting enough Upgrade levels through experience to force questionable matchups in your favor). Whether it be through positioning, hard counters, strategic use of Sentry Missles and Abilities, etc.
On that at least I'm sure we can agree. Yes?