Fix for the Elite Specialist

[Hellhunter]

Problem:
The Elite specialist is too weak, and cannot be played successfully at higher Levels.
- His reactions are too expensive
- he has less unit variety because his units cost more
- having one of your units countered by the enemy is more expensive than it is for other Specialists.

Fix:
Make lvl2 Units optional instead of obligatory.

2 Ways to do this:
- Make the Level 2 Unlock free in the command center for Elite Specialist
- Give him an active ability to unlock level 2 units. This might have one round cooldown, although i dont think it is needed.

Isn't this OP?
Lets compare:
- Supply specialist gets 50$ per round, which means he can do the upgrade for "free" every second round. But he has the advantage to be able to spend this money otherwise.
- Quick Supply specialist can do the lvl2-upgrade twice for "free", but he has the advantage that he can take initiative from the start and spend the money otherwise.
- Giant Specialist: Saves usually 400-800$ on a specific purpose, like the Elite specialist would after using the ability 4-8 times.


What are your thoughts on this?

[D#]

Im not sure what "higher level" indicates but i find with the elite specialist you will clearly have less units to start but 1 lvl 2 is twice as strong as a lvl 1. This means that you can generally overpower the oppenent but you do have the potential to be countered early in the match. By round 3 or 4 the price difference from a lvl 1 -2 will generally not be an issue and you end up saving a ton of credits over the match.

[Purple Sauce]

the clear problem with elite specialist is the units cost too much. Instantly sacks your early game and the rest of the game is sacked with it.

[Flavalicious]

Make everything but his giant units the normal level 1 at normal cost, but give him level 2 giants at the normal level 2 price. This puts Elite spec at a disadvantage for the first 1-4 turns because he doesnt get anything for free, but once your into the mid game they get better, but more expensive giant units. Which means they won't be able to drop 2-3 overlords in a single turn, but they can get alot more value out of a single juiced unit, which plays into the concept of few, but elite versus the horde.

Alternatively let him use the level 2 command center building for free, or reduce it to 50 credits, and allow them to toggle it when they want it.

[Purple Sauce]

yea it's pretty bad, just tried it again, the early game is so bad the XP advantage doesn't even remotely matter.

[frank2351]

While i share the view this card is underpowered i don't think it's underpowered by a lot. It's just the card that requires the most skill to play.

Every unit you place with the perk needs to be deliberate. You can't afford placing fluff with that.
The card is actually viable in the hands of a skilled player who knows what to place when where and why, me thinks.

[Purple Sauce]

Publicado originalmente por frank2351:

While i share the view this card is underpowered i don't think it's underpowered by a lot. It's just the card that requires the most skill to play.

Every unit you place with the perk needs to be deliberate. You can't afford placing fluff with that.
The card is actually viable in the hands of a skilled player who knows what to place when where and why, me thinks.

How does it take the most skill when you can't even make units?!?!?

Edit: One of the best things about many of the other choices is that they can deal with counters even if countered early on. If you pick elite and you are countered in the first 3 rounds, you lost.

[Flavalicious]

Publicado originalmente por frank2351:

While i share the view this card is underpowered i don't think it's underpowered by a lot. It's just the card that requires the most skill to play.

Every unit you place with the perk needs to be deliberate. You can't afford placing fluff with that.
The card is actually viable in the hands of a skilled player who knows what to place when where and why, me thinks.

The real issue is your starting roster. If you get Tanks and mustangs, and your opponent gets balls and arclights, your ♥♥♥♥♥♥. If they get pixies in the opening hand, you can buy a single fang squad to try and counter it. If you can survive til like turn 3 without getting steam rolled, you have a fighting chance for the rest of the game, but if the luck of the draw sees you countered on hand 1, they enemy will get so much xp you'll be left in the dust. lol

[frank2351]

Publicado originalmente por Purple Sauce:

Publicado originalmente por frank2351:

While i share the view this card is underpowered i don't think it's underpowered by a lot. It's just the card that requires the most skill to play.

Every unit you place with the perk needs to be deliberate. You can't afford placing fluff with that.
The card is actually viable in the hands of a skilled player who knows what to place when where and why, me thinks.

How does it take the most skill when you can't even make units?!?!?

Edit: One of the best things about many of the other choices is that they can deal with counters even if countered early on. If you pick elite and you are countered in the first 3 rounds, you lost.

well, buying a level 2 unit for 150 is like buying 2 units for 150 instead of 200. You save 50 on every unit placed it's just that it's one unit instead of two so if you place it badly it'll hurt you twice as much. If you place it well it'll be twice as strong. In a sense it aplifies your skills at unit placement.
It's a perk you would only pick if you are very confident in your ability to build effective army formations.

[Purple Sauce]

Publicado originalmente por frank2351:

Publicado originalmente por Purple Sauce:

How does it take the most skill when you can't even make units?!?!?

Edit: One of the best things about many of the other choices is that they can deal with counters even if countered early on. If you pick elite and you are countered in the first 3 rounds, you lost.

well, buying a level 2 unit for 150 is like buying 2 units for 150 instead of 200. You save 50 on every unit placed it's just that it's one unit instead of two so if you place it badly it'll hurt you twice as much. If you place it well it'll be twice as strong. In a sense it aplifies your skills at unit placement.

It literally doesn't due to how counters work in this game. Also unit count matters more than stats in a game like this. You will get swarmed because other people are quite literally, getting more than units than you because they probably have boosted income.

[PrinzMegahertz]

Publicado originalmente por Hellhunter:

Problem:
The Elite specialist is too weak, and cannot be played successfully at higher Levels.
- His reactions are too expensive
- he has less unit variety because his units cost more
- having one of your units countered by the enemy is more expensive than it is for other Specialists.

Fix:
Make lvl2 Units optional instead of obligatory.

2 Ways to do this:
- Make the Level 2 Unlock free in the command center for Elite Specialist
- Give him an active ability to unlock level 2 units. This might have one round cooldown, although i dont think it is needed.

Isn't this OP?
Lets compare:
- Supply specialist gets 50$ per round, which means he can do the upgrade for "free" every second round. But he has the advantage to be able to spend this money otherwise.
- Quick Supply specialist can do the lvl2-upgrade twice for "free", but he has the advantage that he can take initiative from the start and spend the money otherwise.
- Giant Specialist: Saves usually 400-800$ on a specific purpose, like the Elite specialist would after using the ability 4-8 times.


What are your thoughts on this?

I like the first variant where you can get the *1 level upgrade for free.

[MrGreen]

Publicado originalmente por frank2351:

Publicado originalmente por Purple Sauce:

How does it take the most skill when you can't even make units?!?!?

Edit: One of the best things about many of the other choices is that they can deal with counters even if countered early on. If you pick elite and you are countered in the first 3 rounds, you lost.

well, buying a level 2 unit for 150 is like buying 2 units for 150 instead of 200. You save 50 on every unit placed it's just that it's one unit instead of two so if you place it badly it'll hurt you twice as much. If you place it well it'll be twice as strong. In a sense it aplifies your skills at unit placement.
It's a perk you would only pick if you are very confident in your ability to build effective army formations.

Doesn't matter how great you skill is when you have more then one place wher you need a counter unit but you have only enough money for one. Or does it?
Also a lot of times at the erly rounds you can't spend your money well because of the high prices.

So with a higher Skill lvl you flank a lot against Elite, you play a lot of different Units and you use the beacken. Its hard to adept for Elite, so make him adept a lot.

[Thorqemada]

That Elite Specialist usually come with the highest TP means they are the hardest to play as you get your high TP to offset the imbalance if i understand that right.

TP may be named different in english - its the Hitpoints your side gets when you chose your starter squad.

And for some reason a lvl 2 Unit is a good as 2x Lvl 1 Units is not coming true and they are still weak agsint their counters at lvl 1.

When the oponent gets the cheap upgrade card the balance is totally out of the window...

[Lucky_Star_Fan]

Maybe take elite out of the starting pool and just make it a round end choice? Can apply a pricetag to it if necessary.

[puschit]

It was definately the worst when he recruited level 3 units. At 2 he a-okay. But I agree that it should be optional for him to buy level 2 units.

Publicado originalmente por Flavalicious:

Alternatively let him use the level 2 command center building for free, or reduce it to 50 credits, and allow them to toggle it when they want it.

And I agree that that's the most elegant way to achieve this.

[Purple Sauce]

Publicado originalmente por Flavalicious:

Make everything but his giant units the normal level 1 at normal cost, but give him level 2 giants at the normal level 2 price. This puts Elite spec at a disadvantage for the first 1-4 turns because he doesnt get anything for free, but once your into the mid game they get better, but more expensive giant units. Which means they won't be able to drop 2-3 overlords in a single turn, but they can get alot more value out of a single juiced unit, which plays into the concept of few, but elite versus the horde.

Alternatively let him use the level 2 command center building for free, or reduce it to 50 credits, and allow them to toggle it when they want it.

This is the best way to do it imo. It's so bad, you have to sack your income at the start to build units or get trashed. The only way this "buff" works is if you already counter your opponent at the start of the game and well, ANY of them would win at that point.