Roundhouse vs Longhouse(beta1003)

[Lercon]

Longhouse seems to be much worse than Roundhouse.
The construction(per inhabitant) of Longhouse is much more expensive than the construction of Roundhouse. That would be ok, but they are even worse in sleeping comfort 30%(Roundhouse) vs 19%(Longhouse). And whats even worse is that it is more expensive (and takes very long time) to repair them(per inhabitant) than the Roundhouse and so the impact of availabel sleeping places is extensive.
I thought i could replace my Roundhouses with Longhouses step by step, but at about 5 or 6 Longhouses i was not able to repair them anymore in time.
Switching back to Roundhouse solved that problem, and now my 212 inhabitants are happy living in 28 Roundhouses(231BC) .

Removed my 6 Storehouses aswell, because i could not get enough reed to keep them functional in time.

Would be nice to have something like wood- or bark shingles for the roofs (at the appropriate time).
would be nice to decide which material to use for the roof, or make more different buildings available e.g. Storehouse with straw or shingles roof

[LadyLillyno]

Longhouse does take more to repair, but it can take 18 people, so the capacity is more than double of what the Roundhouse is, and this is also why the desirability of the Longhouses is lower than the Roundhouse as nobody likes to be clumped together with many many others when trying to sleep.

Roundhouse also takes less than 100 straw for repairs in comparison to Longhouses that takes more, which is why Longhouses also take longer to repair.

You will spend more workforce for longer, and hence more workforce is taken away from getting more straw in their groups. ultimately you can end up with never completing repairs due to that income of straw versus usage of workforce for both repairs and materials becomes unbalanced. This is something we as players need to keep an eye on and adjust to.
This is more prevalent in games where you play on Fast than on Normal or Slow.

So it can quickly become an evil circle if you only have Longhouses when tribe is huge, especially if you have stayed in the locality for many decades, due to diminishing effect.

We are not supposed to have only 1 type of housing, so it is always smart to have a mix of Longhouses and Roundhouses. At least, that's what I do and I have no issues with the mix...most of the time. It is very pending seed of locality as well.

If you have many Reed structures, you will run out of Reed in the long run as the environment cannot keep up with all human usage, same as IRL, so basically your current locality has met its limits, also due to diminishing effect after decades of usage.
I also get issues with Reed if I build too many structures in a locality that is not plentiful and/or have at least 1 connecting river when I stay for many decades.
We need to build as the environment allows us, and all localities have random seeds wrt to prevalence of all materials, hence no locality needs be the same.

We might get some more Straw/Reed if too many of us has this issue, but for now we need to adapt to how the environment reacts to our actions.

I would also love to have other options for the housing materials than straw or reed only.
With implementations of other cultures and new time lines we are bound to get more types :)

[Lercon]

The Longhouse dooes not seem to me to be an improvmet like all the other steps in architecture Knowledge. Having a mix of Longhouse an Roundhouse still seems to me quite useless. They almost use same materials and i always got plenty of them since farming.
The Longhouse needs more mats and repairs per inhabitant and you could build almost 4 Roundhouses on the same space of 1 Longhouse. Thats why i only keep 1 longhouse becasue i like the buildingstyle.
I would like to mix different housing types, and have more alternetives but they are not equivalent in "comfort".
Btw. i migrateted in the early years 2 or 3 times until i found a nice spot, but never again since farming.

Having problems to survive with the mats available is the whole mechanic of the game, thats fine for a survival game but i miss some more impact an my decisions i can make in the game. Not that survival or not is a big impact, but thats the only one.
Perhaps it will come in the Future.

[LadyLillyno]

LH takes 90 straw per repair, while RH takes 80.

This means the amount of straw per sleep-spot is 5 per member for Longhouses. while for
Roundhouses it is 10 per member, ergo the Longhouse is more economical than the Roundhouse.
Even with Roundhouses lasting several sleeps longer on fast before it needs repairs,it is still more costly to keep up than the Longhouse per member.

Annual count:
To house 212 people you need 27 Roundhouses = 2160 straw per repair.
To house 212 people you need 12 Longhouses = 1080 straw per repair, plus 270 for lasting 3 months shorter than Roundhouses = 1350
That is a saving of 810 straw per repair for the Longhouses versus the Roundhouses.
This is numbers I have from several weeks ago, so if the numbers are changed I need to do some new tests to find out the new values.

Your tribe will rotate on sleeping in the better huts by system function, so if you have unhappy people it has nothing to do with the housing, but rather with peoples grades in fitness and/or will, your food, lack of religion(burials) or prolonged high work-hours.
If you pay attention to the people who sleep in the LH versus the ones sleeping in the Roundhouses, you will find that they are very happy with both, and they will let you know in their descriptions.

So, to me, having a mix of these are not useless as LH takes 18, and overall costs less in repairs, however, it takes longer to both build and repair, plus much more costly for initial build.
However, when they are up, they are cheaper to keep up, and you need 2 times less houses than if you do Roundhouses only.
A mix is a good idea for my play style and I have no issues with keeping up housing for 400+ people, so, it works for me and the way I do things :)
I use a mix also for the saving of workforce and time.
I even have pelt huts in some large Neo tribes without issues.

[Lercon]

Unfortunately I have to completely disagree with your (older)numbers.
My numbers from the game (beta1003) show the following:

Roundhouse: repair begins at 58/100 straw, 380/400 constitution: 42 straw needed
Longhouse: repair begins at 508/600 straw, 288/300 constitution: 92 straw needed

RH: 42/8 = 5,25/inhabitant/repair
LH: 92/18 = 5,11/inhabitant/repair

So far the RH is more expensive to repair than than the LH

I wached 1 roundhouse and my longhouse directly after both were repaired to full constitution at the same day just within some ingame hours difference.
It took 30 day cycles until i needed to repair my RH(1 day )and after 31 days my RH was repaired and restored to 400 constitution.
In the same time i repaired my LH exactly 3 times. 1st at day 7(1day repair) 2nd at day 17(2days repair) and at day 27(2 days repair).


Repair cycle +- :
RH +-30 days --> 5,25/30=0,18 straw/inhabitant/day
LH +-7.25 days --> 5,11/7,25=0,71 straw/inhabitant/day

Calculating the repairs, the LH is about 3.9 times more expensive than the RH.
Base construction is more expensive, and still "sleep" is worse. they are all happy atm as long they dont have to sleep outside.

All i mean it is that the LH is much more expensive and worse in comfort and that is nothing i would have expected from technological advancement in a survival setting. As long sustaining is no problem everything is fine. Mixing houses depending on available resources is always a valid and necessary option. I really don't now what to do with all my rotting leather and rawhide....

Aslong the tribe survives and is flourishing every playstyle is great.

[LadyLillyno]

That cant be correct :D No way we differ that much, when that is said, I am several testing patches ahead of you so this might be why.

First of all, when you say days I assume you mean on Fast.
My numbers are several weeks apart from yours so they might be off, but a RH does not only need 42 when needing repairs, each repair cycle takes 80 straw. So our numbers seem colliding on each our sides if they come out different for both of us.

My LH needs repairs several days earlier than RH, but the ratio of 30:7 seems really off. 30 days before repairs are needed for RH in V1.0.0.3? On Fast ? No way has RH ever taken 30 days to need repairs! I mean I wish, but no way :) Are we still talking fast here?

No matter, the point of wanting LH is the amount of people it can take for its upkeep, when you have 212 members you need 27 RH to fit them all, while you only need 12 LH... So all while the LH is much more expensive to build, you will not spend more straw for upkeep than you do with those 15 extra RH anyway even if the LH needs repairs more often.
The Devs would not make a final housing so much worse than its predecessor... so smt is off for sure with some of the numbers atm.

Maybe we should wait till we are on same patch to find the correct numbers.
As it is now I will always be wrong until the patch i am on is released.
And I now have a headache :P


As far as the leather and raw hides, I agree, I mostly only need them for my threshers, unless I have pelt huts, so what I do is that I trade them away if decay becomes too high:)
I do believe tho that we are perhaps getting more uses for them in future implementations or DLCs :D

[LadyLillyno]

I think I know why we differ so much on the final results :D

I went over to Beta 1003 and checked out the numbers, it seems I do get same as you, only partially tho, we are still off a tad from each other.. this is likely to be on my side as I suck at maths.
I managed to find more agreement with your numbers when playing Normal speed.
So your numbers are from normal I assume while mine was from fast.


So you have LH repairs per 7.25 days on normal, while I have 13.5 days on slow, and 5 on fast.
You have RH repairs per 30 days on normal, while I have 44 on slow, and 14.5 on fast.
So we seem to be fairly agreed-ish here tbh on these numbers at least.

Lets move over to months instead of speed.

Correct me please if my maths is backwards :)
If you calculate 90 straw per LH repair app every 5 months we get 90 x 2.4 per LH per year: 90 x 2.4 = 216. per year per LH
So 15 LH x 216 = 3240 straw per year for 15 LH.

With 27 RH that needs repairs 1,5 times per year we get 80 x 1,5 = 120 per year per RH.
So 27 RH x 120 = 3240 straw per year for 27 RH.

However, the RH repairs are not 2 times per year every year, so one year they are needing repairs once, while next year they will be 2 times, on LH they will be 2 times one year, while 3 on next etc, so numbers will be a smidgen off in that regards.

So basically the numbers will fluctuate per year per building type :D
I have not done any of these calculations, but this does sound like we can have RH winning one year, while LH equals out next year, but with RH having 30+ Service in comparison to 19% for LH, then RH is on the whole a winner over LH.
In regards to Straw usage, they are pretty equal and winning and stale mating each other every other year, even tho on the whole RH is less repair needy than the LH due to the LH constitution being only 300 compared to RHs 400.

Hopefully Devs will rectify this so LH will always be a little better than RH, on at least some points :)

[Elessar]

Or maybe build houses of clay and flat roofs. We have seen such houses in photos and promotional videos of our game. They would be more comfortable, more durable and would give a greater comfort of living.

[LadyLillyno]

I would love the diversity and I am hopeful we will get it via DLCs and/or implementations :)

[UncasualGames]

Originally posted by Elessar:

Or maybe build houses of clay and flat roofs. We have seen such houses in photos and promotional videos of our game. They would be more comfortable, more durable and would give a greater comfort of living.

These houses do not belong to the cultures represented in the game. They appear in the prototype video simply because they illustrate our vision of expanding the game with more cultures and eras.

[Lercon]

Yeah, the different game versions and game speeds seem to explain our differing numbers.
Just for the record, i checked on beta1003, expert, normal speed. With day i refer to 1 day-night cyle

The math seem to be correct, but i still got slightly different numbers.
especially the roundhous repair cost

This is how i checked:
i pressed pause when i saw the repairicon appeare on then house. at the beginning irs a blue on, turns yellow after schort time(more decay).
With blue icon on my buildings(beta1003, expert, normal) i got these numbers:
Roundhouse: repair begins at 58/100 straw, 380/400 constitution: 42 straw needed
Longhouse: repair begins at 508/600 straw, 288/300 constitution: 92 straw needed
After that i just pressed pause every next midday and checke the conditions. But it is enough to keep an eye on the designated buildings and check from time to time until next repair pops up. Is there any weather influence on the decay rate of buildings?

Repair speed and amount of straw needed are depending on many things:
How fast they begin repairs and on how good they keep repairs up, there is more decay to include into calculations, because the buildings will keep on decaying.
The amount of communal tasks and the communal work setting will influence the repairs aswell as the available straw and the distance between haystack and repairplace. Even the daytime at repairbeginn will affect the amount of needed Straw because the tribe does not work at night, but decay does ;).

The LH definitly needs better constitution, better service so it becomes the better choice.
it would be nice it it could be used for people+animals
Are there stables so the animals can get a warm place when temperatures are going down too much(please dont make that too general but temperatur dependent)?

Originally posted by LadyLillyno:

Hopefully Devs will rectify this so LH will always be a little better than RH, on at least some points :)

[UncasualGames]

We will do some tweaks related to longhouses and roundhouses for the next update. Thanks for your feedback.

[LadyLillyno]

Originally posted by Lercon:

Yeah, the different game versions and game speeds seem to explain our differing numbers.
Just for the record, i checked on beta1003, expert, normal speed. With day i refer to 1 day-night cyle

The math seem to be correct, but i still got slightly different numbers.
especially the roundhous repair cost

This is how i checked:
i pressed pause when i saw the repairicon appeare on then house. at the beginning irs a blue on, turns yellow after schort time(more decay).
With blue icon on my buildings(beta1003, expert, normal) i got these numbers:
Roundhouse: repair begins at 58/100 straw, 380/400 constitution: 42 straw needed
Longhouse: repair begins at 508/600 straw, 288/300 constitution: 92 straw needed
After that i just pressed pause every next midday and checke the conditions. But it is enough to keep an eye on the designated buildings and check from time to time until next repair pops up. Is there any weather influence on the decay rate of buildings?

Repair speed and amount of straw needed are depending on many things:
How fast they begin repairs and on how good they keep repairs up, there is more decay to include into calculations, because the buildings will keep on decaying.
The amount of communal tasks and the communal work setting will influence the repairs aswell as the available straw and the distance between haystack and repairplace. Even the daytime at repairbeginn will affect the amount of needed Straw because the tribe does not work at night, but decay does ;).

The LH definitly needs better constitution, better service so it becomes the better choice.
it would be nice it it could be used for people+animals
Are there stables so the animals can get a warm place when temperatures are going down too much(please dont make that too general but temperatur dependent)?

Originally posted by LadyLillyno:

Hopefully Devs will rectify this so LH will always be a little better than RH, on at least some points :)

I do not start until hammer turns yellow as that is normally when the repairs actually starts, so even tho blue hammer shows you a number, it is not a true number due to that repairs has not started and decay still happens.

I have never seen the LH or RH be repaired when hammer is blue, ergo the blue numbers are incorrect for me. :)

The LH in Scandinavia was built to house humans in one end and their livestock in the other :) This for both warmth and protection from wild animals.
We will just have to wait and see if we get this option further down the line with some Scandinavian culture implementations :)

[Pete]

Originally posted by UncasualGames:

Originally posted by Elessar:

Or maybe build houses of clay and flat roofs. We have seen such houses in photos and promotional videos of our game. They would be more comfortable, more durable and would give a greater comfort of living.

These houses do not belong to the cultures represented in the game. They appear in the prototype video simply because they illustrate our vision of expanding the game with more cultures and eras.

more linearpottery culture stuff please

[LadyLillyno]

More content will come, bit by bit :)

[yuriseme]

Originally posted by UncasualGames:

We will do some tweaks related to longhouses and roundhouses for the next update. Thanks for your feedback.

What is currently cheaper to maintain? Because it looks like longhouses are useless in the current conditions.