Any particular use/advice for Triarii?

[Vektor T]

So I decided to play a 7 turn campaign with every Roman era against enemies they faced at the time, and while most of their heavy infantry is a blast, I'm having troubles finding a spot for the triarii.

They are armoured elites, wich is nice, but I'm having trouble finding where exactly in my army they fit due to their low strenght.
- At first I tought to use them in my flanks to counter enemy cavalry, since they carry spears I thought they would have a bonus against moutend, but after consulting the manual I found out that not exactly true, Italian Foot maybe better for this role since they have spears and sword plus more strenght wich able them to also engage other infantry.
- Second I thought to use them has a second rank line infatry, that will feel the gaps amoung mine and enemy line. Again, I don't find they very good at it because of their low strenght and a cheaper Italian Foot or other Hastati/Principe may be better, since while using triarii to exploit opening and flank/attack from other direction was good, they quickly are overrun if anyone else enganes them or the unit they are supporting retreat/break. Seens like they are only good if they can flank/support if there is none else to engage them while doing it, wich I find to be a kinda rare scenario.

So... I'm missing something? Maybe I should take more attention to the battle report and triarii are actually nice and I'm only misusing them? While their elite and armored status are nice, their low strenght seens to be a huge handicap. Maybe I'm not exploiting their offesinve spear status right? If so, how and against who I must use it? I'm thinking if I should use it only against enemy infantry and non-impact foot swordsmen, but not sure yet.

So far I think if I totally remove triarii from my ranks and replace with other infantries, even cheaper, I wouldn't be losing much, but before I want to know if I'm misusing them because, well, real life triarii was a force that I like so much so I want to like them ingame too.

[Crestfallen]

Same thing happens to me. I use them to fill the gaps and set ambushes on enemies that persue my skirmishers, but I think that the situations where they are truelly useful are very limited. Maybe they need a buff, or at least a lower cost.

[Vektor T]

Originally posted by Dan:

Same thing happens to me. I use them to fill the gaps and set ambushes on enemies that persue my skirmishers, but I think that the situations where they are truelly useful are very limited. Maybe they need a buff, or at least a lower cost.

Right now I'm trying to use them only against enemy medium infantry / swordsman of lower tier to see if they can actually melt down weaker infantry faster than similar cost units.

[LastZeroFighter]

Well ideally you will never have to commit these troops. Historically, they were basically used as an elite last resort to to send in if things went really wrong. Often times they didnt even join the actual battle and instead stayed back and guarded the camp (so removing them wouldnt be historically inaccurate). They arent really great at standing and fighting because of their low numbers but they can still be a useful reserve to keep for emergencies. If you want a unit to guard a flank or act as a true reserve use italian foot (or other medium auxiliary), theyre more adaptable and manuverable not to mention that they are much cheaper and have greater availability, thus are more valuable tactically.

You shouldnt try to think of any unit in this game in the sense of how it is balanced compared to other units. All unit types are priced and have availability which reflects their historical prevalance in a particular fighting force. In the case of triarii, there were half as many of them in a legion as there were men in the principes or hastati hence their low unit strength in game.

In summary they arent there to act as an actual reserve, thats what auxiliaries are for. Triarii are for when you have an oh ♥♥♥♥ moment and need to patch it up quickly

[Vektor T]

Originally posted by LastZeroFighter:

Well ideally you will never have to commit these troops. Historically, they were basically used as an elite last resort to to send in if things went really wrong. Often times they didnt even join the actual battle and instead stayed back and guarded the camp (so removing them wouldnt be historically inaccurate). They arent really great at standing and fighting because of their low numbers but they can still be a useful reserve to keep for emergencies. If you want a unit to guard a flank or act as a true reserve use italian foot (or other medium auxiliary), theyre more adaptable and manuverable not to mention that they are much cheaper and have greater availability, thus are more valuable tactically.

You shouldnt try to think of any unit in this game in the sense of how it is balanced compared to other units. All unit types are priced and have availability which reflects their historical prevalance in a particular fighting force. In the case of triarii, there were half as many of them in a legion as there were men in the principes or hastati hence their low unit strength in game.

In summary they arent there to act as an actual reserve, thats what auxiliaries are for. Triarii are for when you have an oh ♥♥♥♥ moment and need to patch it up quickly

I understand how triarii was used in real life, what I really want to know is if they have any actual use ingame. For any use they have, like being a last case backup, it seens that other cheaper units would be better than them.

Anyway, I keep some of them around and trying to counter the enemy sword medium infantry, or any raw forces. Since their are heavy armoured elites, I think they may actually rout those units if not faster than cheaer units (Italian Footman), at least taking less casualties.

[X-the Unknown]

What was the roman main spear/anti-cavalry unit? I thought I always thought I used them in Rome Total Wars for anti-cavalry.

[Zarkarion]

Originally posted by X-the Unknown:

What was the roman main spear/anti-cavalry unit? I thought I always thought I used them in Rome Total Wars for anti-cavalry.

They don't need a special anti-cavalry unit as all of their units (including Raw Legions) can stand up to cavalry unless hit in the flank.

I tend to use Raw Legions as anti-cavalry units.

[Commissar Antonios]

You can use the diamond formation that AI is using when you face Roman Armies. Put them in the second row, have Hastati and Principes charge the enemy and let them play the support role, engaging where you need some extra force, covering retreating units, or covering the flanks of allies hunting routed enemies. But you need most of all be patient and dont get them engaged in the first rounds of combat...

[Vektor T]

Just to update: my experiments using triarii against medium infantry swordsmen, preferably
of lower tiers, kinda works. They do a great job against this kinda of troops. I'm actually keeping them in the back lines and when the fight starts and the battle line starts to become a mess, I shove them through seeking any chance to attack a medium-foot swordsmen, that they do seens to be able to break and rout fairly easy, faster than Italian Foot. Of course, the risk remains, if they are engaged by heavy infantry, especially spear/pike (where triarii loses his Offensive Spear bonus) or are badly outnumbered, they can survive for long without being supported.

So, yeah, kinda a very situational unit but they get the job done for their price. So far I only used them in my Roman campaing against Epyrus where there is a lot of hoplites and phalanx, but I hope in a later campaign against an enemy that use more swordsmen, maybe the Gauls, the Triarii can have more opportunities to shine.

[X-the Unknown]

Originally posted by Zarkarion:

Originally posted by X-the Unknown:

What was the roman main spear/anti-cavalry unit? I thought I always thought I used them in Rome Total Wars for anti-cavalry.

They don't need a special anti-cavalry unit as all of their units (including Raw Legions) can stand up to cavalry unless hit in the flank.

I tend to use Raw Legions as anti-cavalry units.

Ahhhh ok; they had a spear looking thing beside them where as the other two had swords; so I assumed they were anti-cavalry. Seemed to work that way. ;) Good vs elephants also as well as archers.

[Quasicide]

My experience has been that Triarii are supremely useful units. I couldn't have won my campaign on Emperor level difficulty without them.

Sing this to the tune from Beauty and the Beast, "No One Fights like Gascon!"

No one holds the line like Triaii,
Is as bold as Triaii,
Can be purchase and sold for half the price of Hastati!

No one turns the flank like Triaii,
Fills the breach like Triaii,
Exploits the breakthrus created by your mighty Hastati!

No one gets surrounded like Triaii,
Pays the ultimate price like Triaii,
Or keeps a mob of enemies off your precious Hastati!

No one buys you time like Triaii,
To break the enemy line like Triaii,
Don't hold back have them fight alongside your valiant Hastati!

No one counters the mightiest foes like Triaii,
Can be heroically sacrificed like Triaii,
Ties up your enemies best units while you win with Hastati!

No one falls back like Triaii,
Delays impact like Triaii,
Holds the flank just long enough for your victorous Hastati!

No one holds a hill like Triaii,
Stands alone ilike Triaii,
Together two Triaii cost the same as one veteran Hastati!

No one is reliable as Triaii,
Refuses to rout like Triaii,
And with a general can even stand against 480 Hastati!

[Vektor T]

Originally posted by Quasi Z:

My experience has been that Triarii are supremely useful units. I couldn't have won my campaign on Emperor level difficulty without them.

Sing this to the tune from Beauty and the Beast, "No One Fights like Gascon!"

No one holds the line like Triaii,
Is as bold as Triaii,
Can be purchase and sold for half the price of Hastati!

No one turns the flank like Triaii,
Fills the breach like Triaii,
Exploits the breakthrus created by your mighty Hastati!

No one gets surrounded like Triaii,
Pays the ultimate price like Triaii,
Or keeps a mob of enemies off your precious Hastati!

No one buys you time like Triaii,
To break the enemy line like Triaii,
Don't hold back have them fight alongside your valiant Hastati!

No one counters the mightiest foes like Triaii,
Can be heroically sacrificed like Triaii,
Ties up your enemies best units while you win with Hastati!

No one falls back like Triaii,
Delays impact like Triaii,
Holds the flank just long enough for your victorous Hastati!

No one holds a hill like Triaii,
Stands alone ilike Triaii,
Together two Triaii cost the same as one veteran Hastati!

No one is reliable as Triaii,
Refuses to rout like Triaii,
And with a general can even stand against 480 Hastati!

I would appreciate more details of how you use them because the music mentions things that I think it's the main flaw with triarii: they don't hold the line pretty well. I can have a hastati last long enough fighting against the odds and multiple enemies, but the triarii, due to their low strenght, will last way less.

*pretty fun post, anyway! At least when I used to play Europa Barbarorum and Divide et Impera, Total War mods, that's the triarii!

[Quasicide]

First we need to clarify something, are you talking about the start of a sandbox campaign or near the end of one? Because unit quality improves each battle, it makes a big difference; especially if you are fighting campaigns longer than 5 battles.

[LastZeroFighter]

Well they already start as elite soldiers so they cant really improve.

[Quasicide]

Exactly, yet most other units will improve dramatically, so after 5 battles you could have Superior Italian Foot and Elite Hastati. Compared to Elite Triaii, units like that are going to seem way more capable than their starting versions.

[LastZeroFighter]

Oh I see what you mean, yeah once other units reach elite status the triarii are pretty useless as their elite status is what makes them valuable and expensive in the first place.