Traffic jams during marches on the battle map

[Timur]

This is something I see constantly in the game, when I move whole divisions over streets (for example at the beginning of a battle).

I often have divisions consisting of 4 Inf brigades and when I order them to move along a street, the 1st brigade often runs far ahead of the rest, while the 2nd somehow is really slow, so it get caught by the 3rd, then the 2nd slows down even more until the 3rd has passed through it and now the 4th has caught up with both and also passes through what was originally the 2nd brigade. So now the 1st is way ahead, the 2nd is passed down to 4th, the whole column is all mixed up and overall the division has lost a lot of time.

Is their a remedy for this or am I just doing something wrong?
Maybe if 2 units run into each other, the unit in behind should slow down and not the unit in front?

[Butch]

From a historical accuracy standpoint this is 100 % spot on. When 6000 men from different companies, regiments and brigades all end up using a single road at the same time there's gonna be a lot of confusion and breaking down of cohesion. I like this design choice because it makes you think about how you approach battles with large formations.

What you can do is send orders to the different divisions to begin marching at different times. So 1st division marches immediately, 2nd division begins marching 30 minutes later and 3rd division another 30 minutes after 2nd division. Or use completely different roads by setting way points to your divisions. You can layout the exact path you want them to take by holding Ctrl and laying out way points on the battle map.

[Timur]

Originally posted by Butch:

From a historical accuracy standpoint this is 100 % spot on. When 6000 men from different companies, regiments and brigades all end up using a single road at the same time there's gonna be a lot of confusion and breaking down of cohesion. I like this design choice because it makes you think about how you approach battles with large formations.

What you can do is send orders to the different divisions to begin marching at different times. So 1st division marches immediately, 2nd division begins marching 30 minutes later and 3rd division another 30 minutes after 2nd division. Or use completely different roads by setting way points to your divisions. You can layout the exact path you want them to take by holding Ctrl and laying out way points on the battle map.

That is completely missing my point. I wrote that these are units ARE from the same division and the problem is that when two units march into each other, the unit in front is slowed down until the unit coming from behind has passed it. That makes little sense in my opinion. The unit in behind should slow down or even stop, so the unit in front can march uninterrupted.

[Butch]

I understand what you mean. I see this too. I do agree that units in the front should not slow down so that units behind them on the same road can pass by. I was just giving you workarounds but I do agree your solution is more elegant.

But the game is what it is right now and the way to stop this from happening is to try to make sure that the brigades don't collide in the first place. It's easier said than done obviously. You can spread out the individual brigades in the deployment phase so that when they receive orders from their HQ, they're less likely to bump into each other. A lot of times it's just too much effort and easier to just accept that traffic jams are inevitable.

[Zipuli]

The units have a "hierarchy" within the formation when marching along roads:
-cavalry, infantry, artillery, HQ
-in case of multiple units of same type, there is also internal hierarchy

--> if the units overlap even a bit, the "lower ranking" unit will slow down to let the "higher ranking" unit move to its position.

This is the technical explanation to your observation. It's designed like this to make sure units will not march continuously overlapping one another and to prevent (in most cases) the situation where artillery marches as the first unit, and so on.

[Timur]

Originally posted by Zipuli:

The units have a "hierarchy" within the formation when marching along roads:
-cavalry, infantry, artillery, HQ
-in case of multiple units of same type, there is also internal hierarchy

--> if the units overlap even a bit, the "lower ranking" unit will slow down to let the "higher ranking" unit move to its position.

This is the technical explanation to your observation. It's designed like this to make sure units will not march continuously overlapping one another and to prevent (in most cases) the situation where artillery marches as the first unit, and so on.

Okay...is there an easy way to know, which brigade has the priority? Like is it just the oldest one or the largest or something along those lines?

[Jabberwock]

Originally posted by Butch:

I like this design choice because it makes you think about how you approach battles with large formations.

+1

Jed Hotchkiss[en.wikipedia.org] kept a detailed journal[archive.org], the most extensive primary source on Jackson. It's got quite a few anecdotes about sorting out these situations. He'd either tell the faster unit to take a break, or move the slower unit off the road to let them by. Had some epic confrontations with Richard Taylor, among others ... until Jackson made clear that yes, Captain Hotchkiss could order generals and colonels around on the march.

Why was Jackson's Corps the "foot cavalry"? -> Jedediah Hotchkiss

[Jabberwock]

Originally posted by Timur:

Okay...is there an easy way to know, which brigade has the priority? Like is it just the oldest one or the largest or something along those lines?

Would be good to know ...

[ErgoQB]

Second that

[Rygoat]

I think an additional problem with this is the inclusion of HQ units as an actual unit. Couriers are not affected by the slowdown, and neither should the HQ units. Many times my idiot officers muck up the road. For example, sitting on a crossroad, the officers will automatically sit behind the line of battle.

Sometimes this can be in a road, and therefore, slow all units down marching past. But the manual movement of the officers disables the auto follow, and since there is no way to re enable it, aside from giving the division/corps/army an order, this is quite irritating. Not so much for divisions, but definitely for the corps and armies.

The order of march, and line of battle, sometimes does some wonky things. Like putting the smallest brigade on the extreme flank, or crossing paths instead of moving straight when moving by division.

Not sure how much control the devs want to be able to bring up, or if it even possible with the programming, but it would be nice to be able to choose deployment and order of march based on the in battle OOB.

[Zipuli]

Originally posted by Rygoat:

I think an additional problem with this is the inclusion of HQ units as an actual unit. Couriers are not affected by the slowdown, and neither should the HQ units. Many times my idiot officers muck up the road. For example, sitting on a crossroad, the officers will automatically sit behind the line of battle.

Sometimes this can be in a road, and therefore, slow all units down marching past. But the manual movement of the officers disables the auto follow, and since there is no way to re enable it, aside from giving the division/corps/army an order, this is quite irritating. Not so much for divisions, but definitely for the corps and armies.

The order of march, and line of battle, sometimes does some wonky things. Like putting the smallest brigade on the extreme flank, or crossing paths instead of moving straight when moving by division.

Not sure how much control the devs want to be able to bring up, or if it even possible with the programming, but it would be nice to be able to choose deployment and order of march based on the in battle OOB.

Let's see what can be done here. Changing the formation as per OOB is something that will not happen any time soon at least, as it would be a huge change.

[Timur]

Originally posted by Zipuli:

Let's see what can be done here. Changing the formation as per OOB is something that will not happen any time soon at least, as it would be a huge change.

Maybe making the HQs a bit more mobile overall would be a good (and realistic) thing to do.

Yesterday two cavalry brigades marching on a street gave the slip to their division commander, a certain JEB Stuart who was somehow unable to keep up with a whole coherent unit of troops riding down the very same path he was on.

[Butch]

Yea, HQs are way too slow; a bump to their speed would be great. Maybe we can remove the cohesion hit of "colliding" with an HQ unit? A small party of officers on horseback galloping through some marching brigades should not wreck their cohesion.