Union can't build monitors or ironclads

[wm.j.olson]

Since the last patch, there's a whole range of ships that the Union can't build. Info says it requires technology research--which the Union already had--or international deals. There's no information on what policy needs researching to get the right tech. Since the Union pioneered the technology for ironclads it shouldn't have to wait on the Europeans.

Also stumbled on a truly odd glitch. Sent a fleet to blockade the Bahamas. Instead it disappeared off the map to no man's land in Canada. Using the fleet menu, I ordered it back to the coast off of Norfolk, The ship then moved across land sailing not on rivers but overland.

[ArcWolf]

Are you using the Development patch? if so this should be in the development patch section.

As to building ironclads. Once you have Military 1 Policy, you then have to go to finances, and invest money into Military Subsides. Ironclad Monitors and Gunboats require 1 million & 1.3 Million invested respectively to "purchase" the technology from the Projects screen.

[wm.j.olson]

Why make it so complicated? The economic system now is confusing and cumbersome. How to acquire arms similarly so.

[Polygon]

You can automanage anything in the game you don’t want to manually control.

[wm.j.olson]

I have it on auto manage for equipment. Doesn't help. The current economic formula creates needless complications that are not clear or adequately explained. I want to equip my forces with arms. You go to the equipment page. It lays out all the available types with the number of the type available. But you can't select them. Have no idea what the numbers mean in that case. Your order up arms and it takes forever and then you can't recruit expect in onesies and twosies. I like being able to build facilities but there's no idea how doing so actually does anything. You can set subsidies in finance--before it was more straightforward--and it takes forever for the subsidy to do anything and what they do, expect create projects, is unclear as is what the projects actually accomplish in the game. I have almost 150 hours in the game, like it, but it has become less transparent.

[edwardsvincent37]

it took one year game time to figure out new economic mechanic for weapons once you got it its very simple

[wm.j.olson]

So, if it's so simple, how does it work?

[ArcWolf]

Policies increase the amount of money (in the form of subsidies) you can invent into different areas, same as before. Now however, you get to decide what those subsides go towards. In the projects screen there are a number of projects, essentially "research" you might get in other games. Once there is enough money saved up in a specific subsidy category that money can be spent to "buy" a project. This allows you to "cherry pick" what you want.

For example, if you never use re-bored muskets, you can choose to not buy the project and therefor not produce them.

In the military screen under the weapons tab, you can put in orders for specific weapons that you have access to and buy them in bulk, it will take a bit of time for the production run to complete depending on the amount ordered & the standardization of the weapon.

I hope this helps. This is a development patch where we are actively testing and making suggestion, so i recommend starting up an easy/calm campaign and just start messing around with stuff, and then share you experience & thoughts in the dev patch section.

[Mulcaster]

The economic system seems to work for rifles and artillery but not for the navy. Even by the end of 1861, with Industrialization II policy and spending for the military and economy set to maximum, no "coins" accumulated for the building of ironclads. Historically the contract for the river ironclads was let in August 1861 and the first one, the St. Louis, launched in October 1861. I don't see how to duplicate this.

[wm.j.olson]

I have tried all the above and it doesn't work.

Either the subsidies accumulate so slowly that nothing gets built, invented, or developed; or, if they do, the production is idiosyncratic and limited.--e.g. can't produce Springfield rifled muskets and trying to order them doesn't make them available. Various arms have numbers showing they're ready(?) but you can't equip them. Although the Springfield arsenal could only produce roughly 13000 rifles a year in 1861--which is why Union and CSA officials scrambled all over Europe trying to buy arms(which, BTW, did not require improving diplomacy options as in the game)--by early 1862 that was up to 100,000 and by 1863 twice that. Similar production for artillery. The Union and the Confederacy had the know how to produce ironclads in 1861, hence the Monitor and the Merrimack. Yet, in the game, you can't build them, which is a change from earlier. The subsidy/project system seems broken or so slow as to make no difference. Same with ordering. Also, it's completely opaque how the ability to build farms, factories, etc., a great addition, actually works. Also, it is not clear that captured arms ever get added in for equipping units. If so, there should be a lot more weapons available but the numbers don't change. If there's a connection between policy choices leading to particular technologies, this is not explained, so if there's a line saying you need a certain tech there's no way to track the requirement.

I like the whole concept of subsidy/project/finance/policy system and the inclusion of being able to build resource facilities like factories, mills, farms, etc. (but curiously not mines--e.g. iron or nitre). This adds a depth to the game that makes it one of the best of its type. But as is, it doesn't seem to work very well.

[Kemal]

I think the new developmental patch isn't really well balanced yet. It's maddening that you can't also produce weaponry like timberclads, napoleons, 12 pounders, springfield muskets, or some of the older rifles from the start.

[Socialist Tsar]

This is only assuming you're using the development patch.

Originally posted by wm.j.olson:

I have tried all the above and it doesn't work.

Either the subsidies accumulate so slowly that nothing gets built, invented, or developed; or, if they do, the production is idiosyncratic and limited.--e.g. can't produce Springfield rifled muskets and trying to order them doesn't make them available. Various arms have numbers showing they're ready(?) but you can't equip them. Although the Springfield arsenal could only produce roughly 13000 rifles a year in 1861--which is why Union and CSA officials scrambled all over Europe trying to buy arms(which, BTW, did not require improving diplomacy options as in the game)--by early 1862 that was up to 100,000 and by 1863 twice that. Similar production for artillery. The Union and the Confederacy had the know how to produce ironclads in 1861, hence the Monitor and the Merrimack. Yet, in the game, you can't build them, which is a change from earlier. The subsidy/project system seems broken or so slow as to make no difference. Same with ordering. Also, it's completely opaque how the ability to build farms, factories, etc., a great addition, actually works. Also, it is not clear that captured arms ever get added in for equipping units. If so, there should be a lot more weapons available but the numbers don't change. If there's a connection between policy choices leading to particular technologies, this is not explained, so if there's a line saying you need a certain tech there's no way to track the requirement.

I like the whole concept of subsidy/project/finance/policy system and the inclusion of being able to build resource facilities like factories, mills, farms, etc. (but curiously not mines--e.g. iron or nitre). This adds a depth to the game that makes it one of the best of its type. But as is, it doesn't seem to work very well.

This is only applicable if you're using the development patch, which I'm assuming you're on.

***Either the subsidies accumulate so slowly that nothing gets built, invented, or developed; or, if they do, the production is idiosyncratic and limited.--e.g. can't produce Springfield rifled muskets and trying to order them doesn't make them available. Various arms have numbers showing they're ready(?) but you can't equip them.***

I would honestly not automanage the finance/policy/project section if you are doing that. It's extremely easy to manage. Just max out your subsidies, manually choose your policies for your needs and choose what projects you want to do. Subsidies do accumulate quite quickly. It's just a little slow at the start since you can only invest $500k a year (Outside of politics, which is $5m a year.

As for the weapons thing, weapons that appear on the "Weapons" tab at the start are just your stockpile. That's why you'll see Springfield Rifle Muskets, since you get like 19k or so in stockpile. To activate these weapons for production, you'll need to do the associated project. Springfield Rifle Muskets are unlocked through the Springfield Rifle project. I spent a good 30-45 minutes just reading through most of the projects.

As for why they did it, maybe it's for balancing and testing? Could change in the future.

***The Union and the Confederacy had the know how to produce ironclads in 1861, hence the Monitor and the Merrimack. Yet, in the game, you can't build them, which is a change from earlier.***

I think that was a balancing decision so the other ships aren't entirely useless at the start of the game. That's just my theory though

***If there's a connection between policy choices leading to particular technologies, this is not explained, so if there's a line saying you need a certain tech there's no way to track the requirement.***

This isn't a thing anymore. If you want Enfield Rifles, you need to do the British Rifles project (Or whatever it's called), instead of just doing Diplomacy I. I'd still recommend doing Diplomacy I though, so you can get a higher subsidy cap for Diplomacy, allowing you to get them quicker.

Hope this helps a bit :)
Also, feel free to ask me direct question and I'll try my best to answer them

[wm.j.olson]

Thanks for the input. However, problems remain.

I haven't automated projects/subsidies/economy-finances. Clumsy way to proceed overall, howver.

If something is in the stockpile, why isn't it available for use without further ado?

So far, the Springfield rifle project doesn't show up.

The Confederacy only built one ironclad, which they scuttled. The Union had more, river and sea, but given the South's limited production of shipping overall, apart from small blockade runners, this was never a major factor. Commerce raiders were a different matter.

The British rifle project doesn't show up, so far, and this ought not to be a feature given the ability to buy these on the European market from the start of the war. A needless complication.

Overall, the new system is buggy, glitch-prone, and too opaque. Lots of good ideas but in practice these are cumbersome or unworkable, or mysterious.

This doesn't make the game unplayable but it doesn't help with immersion.

[Socialist Tsar]

Originally posted by wm.j.olson:

Thanks for the input. However, problems remain.

I haven't automated projects/subsidies/economy-finances. Clumsy way to proceed overall, howver.

If something is in the stockpile, why isn't it available for use without further ado?

So far, the Springfield rifle project doesn't show up.

The Confederacy only built one ironclad, which they scuttled. The Union had more, river and sea, but given the South's limited production of shipping overall, apart from small blockade runners, this was never a major factor. Commerce raiders were a different matter.

The British rifle project doesn't show up, so far, and this ought not to be a feature given the ability to buy these on the European market from the start of the war. A needless complication.

Overall, the new system is buggy, glitch-prone, and too opaque. Lots of good ideas but in practice these are cumbersome or unworkable, or mysterious.

This doesn't make the game unplayable but it doesn't help with immersion.

***If something is in the stockpile, why isn't it available for use without further ado?***

Got no clue. This is only an early development build, so it'll probably change.

***So far, the Springfield rifle project doesn't show up. The British rifle project doesn't show up, so far,***

They are there at the start of the game. All projects are. If you wanted to, you could try and get the Warrior class starting in 1861.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2809163896
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2809163919


Compared to the old system, I'm much preferring this, even in it's early stage. It only released a little while ago and the devs are constantly updating it, so it won't be like this forever.

[mogami_99]

I am building both

[wm.j.olson]

Secret of your success?