[SPOILERS] How did you guys figure out the seaman and topmen?

[liq3]

So, I beat the game. I struggled a lot with the seaman and the topmen and guessed quite a few of them (at least 10+). People keep talking about using the numbers on the hammocks but I could never figure out a way to use that identify the last 6 or so seamen and the topmen without guessing.

I'm curious what lines of deduction you guys used to figure out the topmen and seamen.

[Lim-Dul]

Oh boy, this is probably a topic for a whole guide. I might post something tomorrow but in my case almost everything circled around the hammocks and their surroundings (not just numbers, but in general) and after that eliminating the last possibilities remaining in a given ethnic or occupational group.

[Merlin the Tuna]

The lightning strike event lets you identify most of the topmen's faces, which is a big help. After that, ethnicity and language did a lot of the work. I did still guess on the Chinese topmen and the Russian seamen, though - I knew the figures in each subgroup but doled out names randomly once they were the only ones left.

For the topmen, scene 2.1 includes the three Russian sailors playing cards nearby. Combine that with the lightning scene and you know exactly who the Russian topman is and which of the two Seamen are Russian. The 4 Chinese topmen are also their own fairly obvious subgroup. That leaves 3 Europeans, the New Guinean, and the Persian. The most likely to be non-European of the bunch are tattoo guy and turban/scimitar guy. The latter aligns pretty clearly with being the Persian, but you can also see his scimitar hanging outside of a set of hammocks in either that scene or 7.2, and the three bunks in that rank are the correct answer and two obviously unrelated seamen. Of the remaining , Nick is identified as having died early in the spider attack, which just leaves two. I forget how I got those, but it likely had to do with hammock numbers.

For the Seamen, scene 7.1 (just before the Kraken attack) includes someone yelling at "the Dane" before killing him, so that's a lock. The killer also mentions his brother dying, and the two last names that match are Peters. Before the Dane gets killed, someone defends him by saying that the brother's death was a freak accident with the ropes, referring to scene 1.1. I don't remember how I determined which brother was which, but it was probably based on hammock numbers.

Past that, the Indian Seamen are hanging in and around their bunks in scene 2.1, which makes them pretty straightforward. And O'Hagan gets called for in one of the mermaid attack scenes, so you can eventually deduce which one he is. I don't completely remember my process for the rest, but Brennan gets called for in one of the deaths during the Escape, and I think I was able to process-of-elimination him at that point. I don't totally remember if that covers all of them, but it's most.

I think that part of the process with the bunks is that the log will tell you which other characters were in the scene, including people still in their bunks whose faces aren't visible. I used that more in other scenes for figures in the distance, but I'm sure you could eventually work out some details that way.

[Badger]

I relied a lot on how people frequently hang out with people they work with, aboard the ship. This was seen especially in the artwork, where people of the same roll surrounded each other. The topmen were pretty easy in one particular scene, where they were almost all gathered together. Check the glossary for the definition of the rolls, because seamen normally work in the lower levels, while topmen work the rigging.

[Lim-Dul]

OKidOKi, time for a spoiler dump.

I shall list my deductions for all the topmen and seamen - please note that I would have been utterly stuck without having been pushed towards the "hammock identification system" by Lucas. Perhaps my girlfriend would have noticed on our second playthrough, dunno.

General assumptions:

In the crew sketch ethnic and occupational groups tend to stick together and when it comes to hammocks they generally sleep close to each other too (which can be verified easily).

The name tags on the hammocks - especially in scenes II.1 and VII.2 correspond directly to the crew roster entries.

Everyone's competent enough to deduce the actual cause of death - either by finding the body or watching (especially the topmen!) flying overboard here and there or other guys (like Nathan Peters) by a boat-full.

Now, hold my beer. :D

Topmen:

1. Nicholas Botterill: Hangs around the topmen in the sketch. Dies in VI.2 by a monster, which descends inside the ship in the very next scene (VI.3) with Winton Smith shouting "It's already done for Nick!" to his mate. Name drop = immediate deduction trigger. Topman, named Nick, Nicholas, got it.

2. Maba: Tattoos all over the place, Papua New Guinea is the iconic place where many of the tribal tattoo designs came, is among the topmen both in the sketch and e.g. VI.1. BAM!
P.S. I also thought the tattoos looked a bit Celtic but there's no Celtic topman, apart from maybe the Scottish one. I don't think Scots were famous for their whole-body-tattoos. :P

3. Omid: C'mon. Pop-cultural spoilers all over the place. Only one Persian topman, runs around with comically inaccurate (but pop-culturally sound) scimitar (should be a shamshir instead), wears a turban (no Indian topmen!). Also, his cartoon sword hangs next to his hammock and number-tag in VII.2.

4. Timothy Butement: Arm with tattoo of a woman sticks out in II.1 (note the hammock tag). Can be zoomed in from up-close in his death scene in III.3.

5. Lewis Walker: Dunno if there's a better way but based on 1 and 4 he's the only English/British guy left among the topmen. Process of elimination.

6. Jie Zhang: Very distinctive socks and shoes in II.1 (note hammock tag), which can be cross-referenced in VI.1

7. Wei Lee: Feet sadly not visible in II.1 BUT in VII.2 he's sitting under his hammock - that way we can eliminate a Chinese topman with very white socks and very black shoes (look at sketch and other scenes), which helps with the next deductions.

8. Huang Li: We eliminated the other guy with similar footwear in point 7, so this must be him based yet again on II.1 (I took screenshots of all the legs and tags to compare with other scenes :D)

9. Li Hong: Only Chinese left, though he has kind of distinctive footwear anyways (again, hammock and number-tag in II.1) - not traditional Chinese but rather European with closed boots and grey-ish socks.

10. Leonid Volkov: Should probably be 1. on the list since he's so easy to spot. Hangs around (and sleeps) with his mates based on II.1. There's some Russian dialogue to confirm that and you can check that the guy is a topman despite not hanging out with them in the crew sketch since he's clearly visible in the rigging in VI.1. Bonus comment by my girlfriend: He has a beard! He's clearly Russian! (That's the kind of cultural/racial profiling we need! But it works fine for the game.)

Seamen:

1. Aleksei Toporov: Sits next to his labeled hammock in II.1, hangs out with Russians. On top of that, next to the hammock is a bag with a pipe. We see "a guy" (meaning, the same guy from II.1) in some scenes in III.x when climbing into a boat with the same pipe and bag and he still has the pipe in his mouth in IV.1 (and the bag is next to him on the boat).

2. Alarkus Nikishin: We eliminated all other Russians by now and he's only one of two Russian seamen anyways. If you get Toporov, you get Nikishin as a bonus.

3. Nathan Peters: Apparently had a brother as evidenced in Linde's death scene (VII.1). So we already know straight away it has to be one of the "Peters" guys. If we go to VII.2, we see an empty hammock the label 48 on it. The other Peters brother died waaay back at the beginning of the journey so why would his hammock be strung up? Must be Nathan then and the guy who died in I.2 is Samuel.

4. Samuel Peters: Vide explanation of Nathan. Process of elimination with only two possibilities anyways.

5. Lars Linde: Extremely obvious "Dane" shout-out during his death scene in VII.1. Only Dane on board, blammo!

6. John Naples: Name-dropped in his death scene by the surgeon. Surprisingly few Johns on-board, the other one being an officer, who this poor soul clearly isn't. (No fancy hats going on.) Boom!

7. Soloman Syed: Name-dropped in his death scene in II.1. Dies in his own hammock (see tag). Classic hammock-identification guy like all the other Indian seamen.

8. Renfred Rajub: A second Indian seaman dies in II.2. We already see him sick in his hammock (note number) in II.1 Easy-peasy.

9. William Wasim: What's this? An empty hammock with the number 53 in II.1 because someone just stood up worried about his mate Syed?

10. Abraham Akbar: Oh noes! The last hammock in the Indian area has an X on it! Whatever shall we do? Oh, wait, there's only one Indian seaman left. ;)

P.S. My pet theory is that this was Samuel Peters re-used hammock, which Abraham got for whatever reason. For the first death they actually bothered crossing off names and Samuel was number 60. Completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things - just explains the X in my mind.

11. Hamadou Diom: One of only two black seamen, the other one being Alexander Booth (we will get to him later). Kinda stereotypically / exotically clad in the crew sketch (only one guy from Sierra Leone), but this wasn't a strong enough clue for me until eliminating Alexander.

12. Alexander Booth: Is seen leaving the boat with "Nathan Peters" group (whom we already established?).
When we yet again observe the hammocks that were just left empty in VII.2, we see that Nathan, Alexander and Lars all slept close to each other (so did Omid, who is seen on the look-out for the lifeboat). He's also the guy who says that he saw what happened to Samuel in I.2 (can be confirmed) and that it wasn't Lars' fault indicating that they all belong to the same group. By process of elimination (Nathan, Omid and Lars should all be known by now), this has to be Alexander. Eliminating him as a black seaman allows us to cross off Hamadou above.

13. Henry Brennan: People seem to have problems with him, for me he was like the first not-so-minor character to be identified.
In IX.6, Thomas Lanke's death scene, William Hoscut clearly calls out for "Brennan" to get the surgeon's kit. Disregarding all the other facts that we are down to pretty much none of the crew left from a timeline-perspective, that Hoscut and Brennan seem to hang around (and be co-mutineers) and so on - we clearly see ONE guy holding his hand up to his ear as if reacting to the "Brennan" call-out.
It really is that simple.

14. Patrick O'Hagan: Is name-dropped in his death scene in V.1 (if I recall, too lazy to check). Is the only non-Russian, non-Steward, non-Officer, non-Formosian around. All the latter groups can be identified in one's sleep. Easy stuff. :)

15. George Shirley: If we compare II.1 and VII.2 - yes the hammocks again - we see that he's sitting next to number 41, Wei Lee, in the latter scene but his hammock isn't strung up. Going back to II.1 we can deduce that the unstrung hammock should be number 59 and these two guys are the last ones left alive out of this group at this point in the timeline anyways.

P.S. Going on a tangent here (from another thread): George Shirley, seems to be kind of open-minded as to mingling with the other ethnic minorities. On the crew sketch he's gambling with Hamadou, Alexander and Jie Zhang and later on, in VII.2, he's having a drink with Wei Lee, making the connection between the hammock tag in II.1 and his physical representation in VII.2 stronger, I feel. I mean, the hammock of George Shirley is hanging among the Chinese topmen, even though he's an English seaman.

Since the game intentionally leaves some space to fill in the blanks with one's own stories and imagination, I think George Shirley would have been a pretty fun guy to hang around with. :P

He doesn't seem to mind interacting with everyone on the ship regardless of ethnicity and role and dies while (sadly unsuccessfully) trying to save a fellow crewman from being blasted to smithereens.
What a hero!

P.P.S. And by that point we have eliminated all other possibilities anyways, right?

PHEW! Could be used as a guide if I turned this into a list of increasingly more obvious hints.

See? 0 wild guesses involved. True, some of this stuff is sort of based on assumptions, not 100% verifiable facts, but not unfounded ones and ones that are more likely than other possibilities.
The game seems to favor "Occam's Razor" solutions.

Sure, we could assume that the nail above the head of this one guy in this one scene multiplied by three indicates the holy trinity and then this implies the all-seeing eye in a triangle, ergo Illuminati and time machines and so on.
Or that people sleep in other people's hammocks, exchange socks and shoes, blah, blah.

Or perhaps a guy sitting directly next to his hammock is the most likely scenario. In the end, you can just verify your assumptions by trying them out. ;)

[liq3]

Damn, nice work! I easily guessed half of those, nice to see there is actually a way to deduce them all.

PS. Props to the devs for making such a solid game.

[Jigsawn]

Lim-Dul nailed it. That's pretty much exactly how I figured them all out.

My working was along these lines:

As some people have mentioned, I also figured out who George was by him socialising and sleeping with the Chinese as a clue (using his hammock number as a reference). That made me more confident that the bald white guy drinking with the Chinese guy during the artist's death was George. I was juggling between George, Booth, and Hamadau (sp) as to the identies. I managed to whittle it down through Booth speaking English, and Hamadau due to his appearance probably being the non-English guy. If anyone knows any other clues to seperate these 3 guys please let me know!

The Indian squad was fairly straightforward once you learn they both caught the disease, and realise they are bunked up together, sit together in pictures and work together.

The Russians are a mix of clues - they speak Russian when socialising, they group together in the photo, they sleep together. In the kidnapping merfolk attack, there is a Russian guy and he has a pipe so you can use the hammock to identify him. The others are process of elimination due to their roles on board.

The English brothers I got stuck on for ages thinking it was just random, but there is a subtle clue as to which brother is which in one scene.

The other Topmen are by far the hardest and it basically clicked once I knew hammocks were key (thanks to hints on this forum). Once I paid attention to the hammock details I was slowly able to narrow it down - the tattoed arm, and the legs and sandals on the chinese guys let you whittle it down once you find the right scenes giving you the intel.

The frenchman is another tricky one that I, like many people, assumed was Mako due to the 'torn in half' comment. Then I was wondering why Mako was in the rigging and guessed hmmm, with those tatoos maybe he is actually the New Guinea guy. With that assumption I then returned to the Doom chapter to see what happened to the other unknown characters, and saw the stripey shirt guy about to get grabbed by the kraken. With the clue that maybe he was the one torn in half I then followed his memories and got more evidence he was probably the Bosun's mate due to the number of scenes they are close together and the responsibilities he has, plus his shirt is classic French sailor. I was able to double confirm even once I knew his identity as you can narrow Mako down as definitely being the New Guinea guy due to figuring out the other Topmen identities.

The Bosun and Purser I made eductated guesses about at first. But after getting it right I was able to find a logical way to confirm the Bosun due to his whistle which is sneakily hidden in his cabin in the deserted Obra Dinn, and you see him wearing it during the Unholy Captives chapter on deck.

So it's cool that even if you got some by guessing, if you go back and explore or reason enough, you can confirm every answer through proper deduction. I think every character has at least 2 clues pointing to their identity and combined with process of elimination you can safely say that every character is fair to figure out.

If anyone wants reasoning for any other crew members feel free to ask. Heck, there are bound to be subtle clues some of us have missed!

[alexbattledust]

The bosun can also be identified because he swears in German and there's only two Austrians on the crew.

[Lim-Dul]

As to the purser - you can get him 100% in chapter VI. The "X others were present" helps immensely because he is listed as being present in some scenes and yet nowhere to be found - OR IS HE? :P

[Butterfly]

It's worth noting for Brennan there's another way to deduce him from those same scenes.I spent a lot of time looking through those scenes and looking at who is already present belowdecks and who comes in and when. Hoscut and Brennen rush in together to respond to the yells of mutiny and commotion. Hoscut then runs to the poor Midshipman's aid, and Brennan goes to 'resolve' the fight. At this point Hoscut doesn't know who else followed them belowdecks (even though more people do follow), and so it only makes sense that he's calling out to the person who came down with him.

[Lim-Dul]

Yeah, that also makes sense.

[Jigsawn]

Originally posted by Lim-Dul:

As to the purser - you can get him 100% in chapter VI. The "X others were present" helps immensely because he is listed as being present in some scenes and yet nowhere to be found - OR IS HE? :P

Hmmm, now I'm wondering if the purser is sneakily hidden in some scenes which I never bothered to check. Care to fill me in? I narrowed him down thanks to elimination - with the only officers being him and the bosun left to identify. It was pretty clear he wasn't the guy running around the ship half the story. And then the character I suspected as the purser also tries to run away on a boat in his officer-wear, clutching a load of books which again screams intellectual guy. And add to that his more formal appearance and lack of officer's hat and it was pretty clear to me, even before I confirmed who the Bosun's character was.

[Dat Zorro]

I actually feel stupid for having to brute-force John Naples' identity, despite it being marked as easy to figure out.

Given the surgeon's weird wording in John's death scene, I was sure that he was talking to another person present in the hold, but couldn't figure out who.

Regarding the purser:
You can find him in his room, when the crab-riders attack.

[Dexpunk]

Originally posted by Lim-Dul:

As to the purser - you can get him 100% in chapter VI. The "X others were present" helps immensely because he is listed as being present in some scenes and yet nowhere to be found - OR IS HE? :P

Well, it isnt that obvious, since at that point you dont know the whole story and there are some room for interpritation. Right after this chapter we see him and other guys taking off with some books and i kinda suspected that they stole something from the ship. So i thought maybe this guy is using spreading chaos to sneak into pursers office searching for something, like those shells ive heard before. At some point i even marked the guy as a surgeons mate, since he also wearing a tie and is kinda close to evans on a sketch. Of course later on i learned real sm identity and that the steal plot was actually presented in earlier chapter, but for a time my own oversuspiciousness kept me off the course. Game actually throws no curve balls, saddly.

And also there is a secondary hint for a bosun identity. In his room in current time you can find a pipe (i guess) that he have on himself in earlier chapters. Totaly needles tho, since he is the only guy with a french mate anyway.

Originally posted by UAZ-469:

I actually feel stupid for having to brute-force John Naples' identity, despite it being marked as easy to figure out.

Given the surgeon's weird wording in John's death scene, I was sure that he was talking to another person present in the hold, but couldn't figure out who.

Regarding the purser:
You can find him in his room, when the crab-riders attack.

I watched the scene twice and i was totaly sure he talked to captain, only on third time i was like "hold the phone, captains name isnt f**king John"

[Uhumsk]

There are two guys named John, but one is an officer, so you simply have to look for the other guy in the list.

[Future.Ghost]

Originally posted by Lim-Dul:

OKidOKi,\
5. Lewis Walker: Dunno if there's a better way but based on 1 and 4 he's the only English/British guy left among the topmen. Process of elimination.

Lewis Walker can be deduced in one of the later chapters after the Doom, I can't remember specifically which one but you are able to visit the mid deck(?) and see that his hammock is the only one still hanging.