Staggers reducing the stagger counter after enemy is already Broken.

[Nokturnal]

Could we get at least the option for stagger attacks to not reduce the counter after an enemy is already broken?

It's not too hard to work around but it seems kind of lame to have to just defend on heroes that lack a non-staggering attack if you don't want the counter to go down.

[Walker_Paranor]

Not wasting the stagger counters is part of having a good strategy, or else what's the point of having them in the first place?

[vukotlak]

The point is to stagger people.

It's especialy annoying on atks that have a super low stagger time.

[AwesomeMinded]

keep it as it is imo, yes I understand the point being made but I like the strategy of thinking about it.

[16 TIMES THE MIN REQUIREMENTS!!!]

There is no reason to make this game any easier. It has always been pretty tight in my opinion.

[Nokturnal]

Originally posted by "En marana domus nava crunatus":

There is no reason to make this game any easier. It has always been pretty tight in my opinion.

You can create challenge without having to resort to forcing the player to stall for maximum effect. It's always lame in any turn based combat when "stalling" is the best way to play. (stun locking people while you heal because you can't heal out of combat, having party members just stand around so you don't break a stun, etc)

Hell, currently in Renegades you can either stall or just not use heroes that only have Stagger attacks lol. Kinda just bad design that some heroes have almost 0 attacks that don't stagger.

[letir]

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

Kinda just bad design that some heroes have almost 0 attacks that don't stagger.

It is 100% intended design. Characters with "clear" attacks are valuable because they don't waste counter.

[pmnoxx]

Originally posted by mar:

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

Kinda just bad design that some heroes have almost 0 attacks that don't stagger.

It is 100% intended design. Characters with "clear" attacks are valuable because they don't waste counter.

I still don't like how it works. Even if I stun the enemy, it's next turn's counter will decrease if you attack with attack with stagger.

[letir]

Originally posted by pmnoxx:

I still don't like how it works. Even if I stun the enemy, it's next turn's counter will decrease if you attack with attack with stagger.

Don't use attack with low amount of stagger against important enemy. Stagger priority targets with strongest attack until their counter exhausted, hold off mooks with less powerful attacks and AOE staggers.

[pmnoxx]

Originally posted by mar:

Originally posted by pmnoxx:

I still don't like how it works. Even if I stun the enemy, it's next turn's counter will decrease if you attack with attack with stagger.

Don't use attack with low amount of stagger against important enemy. Stagger priority targets with strongest attack until their counter exhausted, hold off mooks with less powerful attacks and AOE staggers.

It's not hard to avoid using attack with stagger. It's just that it forces you to avoid a lot of characters with stagger attacks, because stag counter always decreases even though crit didn't happen.

The thing is that low stagger attacks are already weaker than their counter parts which don't have stagger in terms of pure damage. If you don't crit with such attack, not only you loose crit damage, but also the counter decreases, so you get double the penalty on such attacks.

Even if devs were to make the change then low stagger skills would still be worse in case you crit. You only move enemy/boss slightly and waste their counter.

Not only that makes characters such as Valkyrie especially bad. This just prolongs the combat, and also makes me have to spend most turns just defending. That's just not fun.
That's also not intuitive behavior, I was struggling at first, because I didn't expect that behavior.

[pmnoxx]

I'm fine even if they keep the counter after enemy is broken. It's a trade-off doing more damage with crit, and wasting the stagger counter. At least the enemy gets pushed further on the next turn.

[Abyssia [Massive Damage]]

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

Could we get at least the option for stagger attacks to not reduce the counter after an enemy is already broken?

It's not too hard to work around but it seems kind of lame to have to just defend on heroes that lack a non-staggering attack if you don't want the counter to go down.

Heya! Sorry it's hard gauge if this is a bug or maybe there was an immunity that was missed. Do you mind sending us a save file to [e-mail] and we'll take a look? Thanks!

[Nokturnal]

Originally posted by Abyssia Massive Damage:

Heya! Sorry it's hard gauge if this is a bug or maybe there was an immunity that was missed. Do you mind sending us a save file to [e-mail] and we'll take a look? Thanks!

I don't think a save file is necessary, anyone can test it. For example if an enemies attack can be Staggered 5 times, if you break the attack with 1 stagger, then hit him with 2 more staggers attacks, the next round of combat the attack will only be able to be staggered 2 more times but the 2 additional stagger attacks you did didn't even move the attack back, it just reduced the Stagger counter.

Which leads to players having to not use additional attacks that stagger on enemies they don't want to reduce the stagger counter on. (Having to have teammates that just stand around instead of attacking)

[Karundo]

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

I don't think a save file is necessary, anyone can test it. For example if an enemies attack can be Staggered 5 times, if you break the attack with 1 stagger, then hit him with 2 more staggers attacks, the next round of combat the attack will only be able to be staggered 2 more times but the 2 additional stagger attacks you did didn't even move the attack back, it just reduced the Stagger counter.

Which leads to players having to not use additional attacks that stagger on enemies they don't want to reduce the stagger counter on. (Having to have teammates that just stand around instead of attacking)

The stagger definetily counts for the next round. I'd often break them with a stagger, then use another 60s stagger to push them at the end of the next round. Its even explained in the tutorial that's how it works.
But in case they aren't getting pushed in the next round, then its surely a bug.

[Abyssia [Massive Damage]]

We're going to investigate this issue. Thanks guys! :)

[KatMahan]

Originally posted by Karundo:

Originally posted by Nokturnal:

I don't think a save file is necessary, anyone can test it. For example if an enemies attack can be Staggered 5 times, if you break the attack with 1 stagger, then hit him with 2 more staggers attacks, the next round of combat the attack will only be able to be staggered 2 more times but the 2 additional stagger attacks you did didn't even move the attack back, it just reduced the Stagger counter.

Which leads to players having to not use additional attacks that stagger on enemies they don't want to reduce the stagger counter on. (Having to have teammates that just stand around instead of attacking)

The stagger definetily counts for the next round. I'd often break them with a stagger, then use another 60s stagger to push them at the end of the next round. Its even explained in the tutorial that's how it works.
But in case they aren't getting pushed in the next round, then its surely a bug.

I'm not sure if continuous staggers stack, but it definitely makes a difference if they are at the end of the track and you hit them with a +20s or a +40s