about madotsuki's gender:

[king rosaliya ozbern]

she's a video game character.

if you want madotsuki to be a girl, aight.

if you want madotsuki to be a boy, aight.

if you want madotsuki to be both a boy and a girl, aight.

if you want madotsuki to be neither a boy or a girl, aight.

this is not a super serious topic that warrants people getting angry and territorial. relax.

[my personal perspective is, she's a girl, but i don't need to convince people of that, and i don't need to argue against people saying otherwise. it's just a game.]

[76561197992970007]

Someone finally said it!

Same goes for Madotsuki's age. She could be anywhere from a toddler to... dude she could be a granny who dyes her hair brown to hide her grays for all we mcfreaking know XD

Due to how little information we have on Madotsuki (aka, first name and that's it. and it could not even be her real name either, who knows) people are entitled to their own interpretations of the character. It's always been like that ever even before Yume Nikki came to steam. No need to start discourse over it now after decades of different headcanons and interpretations coexisting mostly harmonically.

[a b s u r d]

Originally posted by JellyCream:

Someone finally said it!

Same goes for Madotsuki's age. She could be anywhere from a toddler to... dude she could be a granny who dyes her hair brown to hide her grays for all we mcfreaking know XD

Due to how little information we have on Madotsuki (aka, first name and that's it. and it could not even be her real name either, who knows) people are entitled to their own interpretations of the character. It's always been like that ever even before Yume Nikki came to steam. No need to start discourse over it now after decades of different headcanons and interpretations coexisting mostly harmonically.

It's very possiable that Madotsuki couldn't be her real name since characters require a name for the menu screen in RPG Maker games. For all we know he might of just slapped a name on her and stuck with it. Obviously that's highly unlikley but considering we have no proof otherwise it's very possible

[Witchkin]

I find the apparent theory of her being anything besides female far-fetched and strange at worst, not due any biases or anything of the like, just it usually plays off very left field and unsuitable due to my own perspective of the game. You could argue elements in the game support this theory, but there's evidence which counters it. Goes to show how the ambigious nature of Yume Nikki itself is being used with its somewhat intended purpose.

[The Unstable Anarchy of ヤギ]

I'm sorry you don't like the discourse but arguing about theories is what disproves them or gives them validity. Otherwise every theory would be equally valid. Proving your theory on the firing line is the best way to get it out there, or get it disproven.
Get off your fence and pick a side or leave the discourse. You offer nothing.

[Ducjnwxu]

Madosuki is officially a girl, somewhere in her teenage years. I don't understand why people have so much trouble deducing sex and age of a damn fictional character with an official manga.

[Peptobislawl]

Originally posted by Veldstadt:

Madosuki is officially a girl, somewhere in her teenage years. I don't understand why people have so much trouble deducing sex and age of a damn fictional character with an official manga.

Because despite Mado being blatantly female and referred to as such in every official source since the game's release, the translators chose to refer to her as "they" for no decernable reason leading to gender identity debates in the forums that never needed to happen and furthur confusion of an already vauge narritive due to something never intended by the creator.

[Dasutein]

Originally posted by Veldstadt:

Madosuki is officially a girl, somewhere in her teenage years. I don't understand why people have so much trouble deducing sex and age of a damn fictional character with an official manga.

The manga is non-canon and is more like a fanfic than anything else. The same could be said about the light novel. They may be official releases, but they play out differently from the game. Heck, the manga and light novel feature completely different stories from each other. They're just interpretations of the game.

[Ducjnwxu]

Originally posted by Dasutein:

Originally posted by Veldstadt:

Madosuki is officially a girl, somewhere in her teenage years. I don't understand why people have so much trouble deducing sex and age of a damn fictional character with an official manga.

The manga is non-canon and is more like a fanfic than anything else. The same could be said about the light novel. They may be official releases, but they play out differently from the game. Heck, the manga and light novel feature completely different stories from each other. They're just interpretations of the game.

While I agree the manga is non-canon, because Yume Nikki has no story, I believe that the portrayal of Madosuki's character is mostly what the fans had percieved of the character. The light novel was also in agreement with the manga. Therefore, what choice do we have considering that a canon character, in two non-canon works, is portrayed the same?

[76561197992970007]

Originally posted by Dasutein:

Originally posted by Veldstadt:

Madosuki is officially a girl, somewhere in her teenage years. I don't understand why people have so much trouble deducing sex and age of a damn fictional character with an official manga.

The manga is non-canon and is more like a fanfic than anything else. The same could be said about the light novel. They may be official releases, but they play out differently from the game. Heck, the manga and light novel feature completely different stories from each other. They're just interpretations of the game.

Shazam, exactly.

Also, Yume Nikki isn't your FNAF or Undertale when it comes to theories. There is not enough of anything to prove or disprove any theories out there. As everything within the game is highly ambigous and interpretative. And most people within the base of Yume Nikki make and share their theories to get creative and have a good time, not start a competition of "which theory is right and which is wrong". There has never been a "side" to pick, really. Different theories and headcanons coexist and have coexisted for decades since this game's release. There's no need to turn everything into a competition now just because the game's on steam.

[76561198118884920]

Originally posted by Veldstadt:

Therefore, what choice do we have considering that a canon character, in two non-canon works, is portrayed the same?

Consider it as it were another fan work.
As long as Kikiyama themselves doesn't go "that's canon/non canon", there's not actual reason to disregard an interpretation.
Of course, it's important to not push headcanons on others out of courtesy though.

[Ducjnwxu]

Originally posted by JellyCream:

Originally posted by Dasutein:

The manga is non-canon and is more like a fanfic than anything else. The same could be said about the light novel. They may be official releases, but they play out differently from the game. Heck, the manga and light novel feature completely different stories from each other. They're just interpretations of the game.

Shazam, exactly.

Also, Yume Nikki isn't your FNAF or Undertale when it comes to theories. There is not enough of anything to prove or disprove any theories out there. As everything within the game is highly ambigous and interpretative. And most people within the base of Yume Nikki make and share their theories to get creative and have a good time, not start a competition of "which theory is right and which is wrong". There has never been a "side" to pick, really. Different theories and headcanons coexist and have coexisted for decades since this game's release. There's no need to turn everything into a competition now just because the game's on steam.

Who is viewing this as a competition? Theories are theories, speculation, however evidence leaves behind plausability towards certain ideas. With theories, there is no correctness unless it goes against a presupposed truth or canon. In fact, there is nothing to theorize as the game does not even have a story. You can speculate that it has a story, but that is assuming that the creator misinformed us.

However, plausably correct theories are all that we want to hear about. A theory is rubbish speculation if it can never be held true. This is what has gone on in the community for long amounts of time, and honestly, if someone is testing your theory, and asking questions about it, you should be happy to have your theory tested. The more testing, the stronger it gets. That's how ideas gain traction, by gaining favor over your critics.

[76561197992970007]

Originally posted by regret:

Of course, it's important to not push headcanons on others out of courtesy though.

I couldn't have said that any better. That's one of the reasons the Yume Nikki fanbase has been amazing.

People are free to have their headcanons and interpretations, and it often led to people sharing them with others and finding new friends, or making even more theories in collaboration with friends.

Rather than shun people's headcanons as "wrong" or "mine is right", people are excited to hear and show their headcanons. There's a mutual respect there, as everybody has their freedom to have their respective headcanons.

Originally posted by Veldstadt:

Originally posted by JellyCream:

Shazam, exactly.

Also, Yume Nikki isn't your FNAF or Undertale when it comes to theories. There is not enough of anything to prove or disprove any theories out there. As everything within the game is highly ambigous and interpretative. And most people within the base of Yume Nikki make and share their theories to get creative and have a good time, not start a competition of "which theory is right and which is wrong". There has never been a "side" to pick, really. Different theories and headcanons coexist and have coexisted for decades since this game's release. There's no need to turn everything into a competition now just because the game's on steam.

Who is viewing this as a competition? Theories are theories, speculation, however evidence leaves behind plausability towards certain ideas. With theories, there is no correctness unless it goes against a presupposed truth or canon. In fact, there is nothing to theorize as the game does not even have a story. You can speculate that it has a story, but that is assuming that the creator misinformed us.

However, plausably correct theories are all that we want to hear about. A theory is rubbish speculation if it can never be held true. This is what has gone on in the community for long amounts of time, and honestly, if someone is testing your theory, and asking questions about it, you should be happy to have your theory tested. The more testing, the stronger it gets. That's how ideas gain traction, by gaining favor over your critics.

Yes, you're not wrong. Not at all. I was not implying YOU were trying to make it a competition (I apologize if it turned out sounding like that), but we've all certainly seen this sort of thing happen, if now in this fanbase, then in others.

The thing about Yume Nikki is that it's way too ambigous to form anything solid enough, and a huge majority of the gaming experience is very personal to each individual player. And we can't really say that that is "right" or "wrong".

But;

I think the problem isn't even really the validity or lack thereof of a theory, but how stigmatized the management of it is nowadays. Such as people being shunned from having their theories/headcanons because they have been disproven previously. Like, yeah, it was disproven, so what? If that fan still likes it and wants to keep it and are having fun with it so long they aren't getting out of their way to shove it on others, who the heckity freshie heck has the authority to say they can't, you feel me?

[Ducjnwxu]

Originally posted by JellyCream:

Originally posted by Veldstadt:

Who is viewing this as a competition? Theories are theories, speculation, however evidence leaves behind plausability towards certain ideas. With theories, there is no correctness unless it goes against a presupposed truth or canon. In fact, there is nothing to theorize as the game does not even have a story. You can speculate that it has a story, but that is assuming that the creator misinformed us.

However, plausably correct theories are all that we want to hear about. A theory is rubbish speculation if it can never be held true. This is what has gone on in the community for long amounts of time, and honestly, if someone is testing your theory, and asking questions about it, you should be happy to have your theory tested. The more testing, the stronger it gets. That's how ideas gain traction, by gaining favor over your critics.

Yes, you're not wrong. Not at all. I was not implying YOU were trying to make it a competition (I apologize if it turned out sounding like that), but we've all certainly seen this sort of thing happen, if now in this fanbase, then in others.

The thing about Yume Nikki is that it's way too ambigous to form anything solid enough, and a huge majority of the gaming experience is very personal to each individual player. And we can't really say that that is "right" or "wrong".

But;

I think the problem isn't even really the validity or lack thereof of a theory, but how stigmatized the management of it is nowadays. Such as people being shunned from having their theories/headcanons because they have been disproven previously. Like, yeah, it was disproven, so what? If that fan still likes it and wants to keep it and are having fun with it so long they aren't getting out of their way to shove it on others, who the heckity freshie heck has the authority to say they can't, you feel me?

I apologize for viewing your post as a threat and taking such an agressive tone. I agree with not shunning people for their (on topic, setting-correct) ideas. However, certain ideas have a place and time, and for what I've argued against, the people perpetuating these ideas have either not researched into the material enough, or are politically motivated. Honestly, I think these people aren't serious, but Poe's law is in major effect here.

I don't see reason why not to let people hold onto certain theories, but if they are not setting-correct, on topic, or outragous beyond belief with no supporting evidence, time and time again will they parrot their theory, and people will either believe them, not being informed of its validity, or shut down the person perpetuating the theory.

Basically, what I am saying to you is I agree with your sentiment, and it's okay for a person to be wrong, but they need to know that they're wrong. That person holding the incorrect theory, not you, JellyCream, yourself.

[76561197992970007]

Originally posted by Veldstadt:

Originally posted by JellyCream:

Yes, you're not wrong. Not at all. I was not implying YOU were trying to make it a competition (I apologize if it turned out sounding like that), but we've all certainly seen this sort of thing happen, if now in this fanbase, then in others.

The thing about Yume Nikki is that it's way too ambigous to form anything solid enough, and a huge majority of the gaming experience is very personal to each individual player. And we can't really say that that is "right" or "wrong".

But;

I think the problem isn't even really the validity or lack thereof of a theory, but how stigmatized the management of it is nowadays. Such as people being shunned from having their theories/headcanons because they have been disproven previously. Like, yeah, it was disproven, so what? If that fan still likes it and wants to keep it and are having fun with it so long they aren't getting out of their way to shove it on others, who the heckity freshie heck has the authority to say they can't, you feel me?

I apologize for viewing your post as a threat and taking such an agressive tone. I agree with not shunning people for their (on topic, setting-correct) ideas. However, certain ideas have a place and time, and for what I've argued against, the people perpetuating these ideas have either not researched into the material enough, or are politically motivated. Honestly, I think these people aren't serious, but Poe's law is in major effect here.

I don't see reason why not to let people hold onto certain theories, but if they are not setting-correct, on topic, or outragous beyond belief with no supporting evidence, time and time again will they parrot their theory, and people will either believe them, not being informed of its validity, or shut down the person perpetuating the theory.

Basically, what I am saying to you is I agree with your sentiment, and it's okay for a person to be wrong, but they need to know that they're wrong. That person holding the incorrect theory, not you, JellyCream, yourself.

True. Misinformation tends to be a big problem nowadays. o:

I think the problem on that isn't really a fan wanting to keep a disproven headcanon/theory just because they like it. But when it comes to sharing, said fan should at least have the courtesy of doing a disclaimer of something like "this isn't official it's just my headcanon" or something like that. Who knows, maybe the theory is wrong because they indeed haven't looked enough into the material like you did in fact say, but maybe they're keeping it to look more in depth to improve or even completely re-work it. And who kows, maybe the new material corrects it, or maybe it really doesn't but they find something new. o:

I definitely agree there is a time and place for certain things, but I guess that depends on how each decide to present they theories/headcanons. I've seen cases (Not in Yume Nikki especifically) of people trying to pass their headcanons as canon and try to shove it down other people's throats and downright misinform, because in that especific case I'm mentioning, the person had a wide popularity (that personally I don't think they deserve but that's besides the point) so they had many fans and many of them just blindly followed without looking into the validity of it. The most migraine-y part? People would still keep following that even after some people have successfully disproven these headcanons being canon, with proof.

Like, if one wants to share their headcanon that Madotsuki is an E.V.O. (Generator Rex, anyone? XD) without misinforming it as being anything other than their headcanon just to have fun with other fans each with their own headcanons, there shouldn't be much of a problem. Like, that's one one thing I've always loved about the Yume Nikki community: it allows people to get creative, and people are genuinely curious to other fans' creativity, so they share them just for a good time where two fans have created two distinct pieces out of their love for the same thing.

[Hugh Mann]

Fair enough.
But she's a girl, though.