[ending spoilers] Pit independence, Faction Reputation and giving the machine to option 4

[Isisius]

Hey guys, so ive been given some general information that for the pit to retain independence you need to have a relationship of 20+ with "the faction you chose", So i assume this meant the faction i gave the machine to. I'm guessing if i betray them and give the machine to the monks (which i think is the best option for the ship as a whole) i wont be able to make 20 rep (happy to be corrected).
In the situation where i give the machine to the monks, do they become the faction i need to get 20+ with? Or is it the faction i betrayed? Or is it any faction? Can i even get reputation with the monks?

Basically, just wondering if anyone had done a play through where they picked Jonas as the leader of the pit, got all the alliances sorted (Factory, Shuttle Bay, Pit all agreeing to be buddies), picked whoever as the guys to give the machine to, but gave it to the monks in the end, and still managed pit independence.

[skaudus]

The storyline branches in a different direction if you give the machine to the Monks. There is no faction attack on the Pit, so nothing to question the Pit's independence in the first place.

Arguably giving the machine to the Monks puts the Pit leaders in their best position.

[Isisius]

Ok cool, i appreciate letting me know that :)
Theres so much cool lore stuff im unlocking and finding out, the story is awesome, but i restarted my run because i was a bit frustrated by being locked into some paths that i felt was slightly too restrictive. Dont need any more info than what youve given there, thanks :)

[stadtpark-hartmut]

To get all achievements and see all endings, you will need about 4 real playthroughs, and another three reloads of the last half hour or so.

And if you are like me, and find out that you couldn't convince Jonas to join the Brotherhood, because I was missing a single point in the conversation, it means another playthrough.

Also: let's say you combine Jonas with Brotherhood, Mercy with the Church, and Braxton with the Protectors: in which playthrough do you intentionally "fail" at Black Hand Fortress, to get the "Black Hand" achievement? In which playthrough do you kill Bart / The Detroit gang, and in which playthrough do you help them take over the toll road? In which playthrough do you kill the Great Mother in the Heart, so you can do the additional "land the whole Ship right away" ending?

For the Pacifism run ends with the Monks anyway, you don't really need any fighting in the Monks ending. But in a way that is the shortest and most boring route, as also being able to fight complicates the specialization of your builds, and makes it overall more interesting. (Showing your 4 4 4 4 4 4 build without any feats taken or tags applied was funny at the end of the "Player submitted builds" in Early Access, as a proof of concept, and last thing to do before the release; but it probably wasn't all that fun to play, other than for the sillyness and the bragging rights.)

tl, dr: You very likely need more than four runs to get all achievements. To get it with just four, you would need to do a heck of planning ahead.


Maybe it is actually cooler to find things out randomly: just cross a few expectations and write your own story. - There is no Canon. - Make your own Head Canon.

[Isisius]

Im not really worried about achievements, I mostly just dont enjoy having to make blind decisions that will have lasting impacts.
I love when games give you big decisions. I even love when the games will let you make those calls without all the relevant info if you lack skills in certain areas, or if you fail a mission, or make an earlier choice that caused this.

When i get presented an option that looks like it will have big consequences but i have 0 information on, the first thing i do is load just before that choice and see if theres anything i missed that gave context.

Then if i find nothing i do a limited search that basically says "is there a way to get more info on this choice". If the answer is yes but i just dont meet the requirements, cool, then ill make the call blind.

If a game does this a couple of times then i start trusting it and dont bother looking stuff up anymore and just assumed that i didnt meet the requirements or missed a quest that gave me info. I personally thought Baldurs Gate 3 was really good at that.

If that turns up nothing and i still really dont want to make a huge choice with 0 info, ill then look for more specific spoilers.

I actually hate looking for specific spoilers, but i hate even more having game defining moments of a story be a blind pick.
I dont think that most of the excuses that are given for that are valid personally.
I think that complete random belongs mostly in roguelites, because they can be finished and restarted multiple times in one play session.

I never stressed about any choices i had to make during a run of Hades, because i just trialed and errored my way through,

But if im playing Baldurs gate, or Mass Effect, or an RPG which is supposed to have the story and the choices be a huge drawing card, then being forced to make choices blind is something that frustrates me.

Ill use a specific example from this game.
When you go to Abes and have to get the two gunmen to back down, if you do it without killing them they go outside.
They get shot while you are inside, and going outside Braxton says they opened fire.
While talking to Braxton, if you character has enough intelligence he notes that it seems very odd that the two guys would back off when there were 2 noobs in a store, but when faced with a party of 7 armed and armoured men they would open fire.
Braxton then admits to hiring the men himself to cause an incident he could step in for and make Jonas look bad.

So here, i had knowledge that i only gained if,
1. I talked the dudes into leaving peacefully and
2. My character was smart enough to spot Braxtons lie.

Thats awesome! I was so excited that this existed.

When i went to talk to Jonas, if you choose the right convo options, he will tell you that the people he sent to the store to demand money looked nothing like those two guys. You dont have any way of verifying his story, but it adds that little bit to the puzzle, because it shows you that
1. Jonas did send dudes to collect "tax", but firmly believed they would never have opened fire.
2. If you believe Jonas, something happened to them and others were sent in their place, so you know somethings not quite right.

Again, super cool that you could figure this out.

Both of those things mostly give you some deeper info on Braxton. Hes cold and ruthless and not above breaking the law himself if he thinks it has a greater purpose.

But you get basically nothing on Mercy or Jonas.
And none of them actively try and convince you that they are the best choice. Sure, if i was some 10str, 10con, brute i probably dont care, i just wanna smash things and get paid.
But if im some 10int, 10cha, genius, then i probably want to, and should be able to, ask some questions so i understand their goals.


Just to note: im not having a go at the devs. I finished the game, and the story was great. But there were a lot of choices that i made where i feel like i had no information to make it any more meaningful than mashing buttons, and that means that the consequences feel less earned, and sometimes cheap.

But having the ability to get more info for those choices takes dev work, and they are a small studio. Can totally understand them having other priorities, and all of the above is just my opinion, other opinions are totally valid.

[LDiCesare]

I think you have some info on Jonas in the opening slides. The Pit is what it is because of him.
You have, however, almost no info about Mercy. You can get a remark that you(r character) should know her, but you (the player) don't. She could be exposed a bit in the opening slides for instance, to provide with "background info" that any Pit-dweller should have.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Ursprungligen skrivet av skaudus:

The storyline branches in a different direction if you give the machine to the Monks. There is no faction attack on the Pit, so nothing to question the Pit's independence in the first place.

Arguably giving the machine to the Monks puts the Pit leaders in their best position.

Is there a way to help the Pit out in the ending? Gave it to the Monks but that thing happended, They had to abandon it

[skaudus]

If you side with Jonas and have your faction rep be over 20, you can convince the faction representatives to let the Pit be independent.

The other leaders prefer an alliance to independence. That being said, a negociated Monk ending is a pretty good deal, as the inhabitants will experience a lot of vertical mobility.

[Isisius]

Yeah that was my take on the ending. Sure, woulda been nice for the pit to stay independent. But isnt the ending i got with the monks a lot better for everyone including the pit?

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Ursprungligen skrivet av skaudus:

If you side with Jonas and have your faction rep be over 20, you can convince the faction representatives to let the Pit be independent.

The other leaders prefer an alliance to independence. That being said, a negociated Monk ending is a pretty good deal, as the inhabitants will experience a lot of vertical mobility.

I think its the best overall ending for everyone involved, pragmatic ending!

Ursprungligen skrivet av Isisius:

Yeah that was my take on the ending. Sure, woulda been nice for the pit to stay independent. But isnt the ending i got with the monks a lot better for everyone including the pit?

I would say so! I agree with you!