Best missions outcomes

[flaviolunardon]

I was wondering if there is some sort of consensus around some missions outcomes. Like, after the release I stopped fighting Jimmy and Manfred in Little shop of horror 'cause I didn't want to miss the extra mission in chapter 3. But grraf made me notice the reward is negligible in a combat party run. So I was asking myself about such situations like:
- arriving in habitat without enough diplo locks you out of some extra missions like Eden Crow.. is it enough to make you want to squeeze some extra diplo on your MC?
- what's the most rewarding way to deal with Factory? This time I went for killing Bart (cause of missing 1 disposition) and stealthing Black hand. Is it ideal?
- Same with mission control, any consensus there?
- and so on..

[grraf]

So for Eden Crow all you need to succeed is this:
1)For Sheffield a 5&6 is what you will need if on a neutral stance with protectors(but can be made much easier by doing some bounty hunting for them and having a bit of cha) but can be done with less if the initial disposition is high enough
2)For Hanson to be persuaded to spare Eden a per6&7 is all it takes if on a neutral disposition but you can do some things to start with higher initial disposition(dealing with Storm(diplomacy->offer her aid via Bufford(gain some energy cells) also rescuing the spy ; stealing the plans from the protectors) naturally after convincing him to spare her you then go kill&loot her&crew then tell Hanson you had no choice but to take her out.

Yeah that is fine for the factory in terms of skill&gear gains

As for mission control(assuming you mean Shadow) its fine to nail the turrets and botch the persuasion if ya got enough initiative&fire power to make short work of them(bby that point you really should)

Thing is you don't need that much to deal with friendly/neutral factions and usually a 5&6 will carry you trough 80% of what you want&need while a 6&7 will get you everything provided you start at a higher then neutral initial disposition as the only checks that have a chance to fail against a 6&7 are the following:
1)Asking Stanton to provide assistance for hydrophonics(virtually zero impact at all(Azrael&crew may start combat with a bit fewer hp))
2)Making the pit accept a straight up 'vassalage' offer from the faction you delivered the machine to(zero impact other then unlocking a steam cheevo and getting a slightly different end slide at the epilogue describing the fate of the pit)
3)Convincing Mother 2.0 to help you stop the engines&initiate a forced landing sequence: unlocks a different ending and a mini battle with monk enforcers upon returning to the bridge(two monk guards nice and easy for just about any crew) to succeed on this one you have better been arse kissing the mutant faction long&hard so you get to start with a hefty initial disposition to succeed even if you half-fail(yellow outline but still moves the persuasion meter a bit in the right diirection) most of the speech checks.

For personal experience ill tell you the following : with zen mutation+skill monkey+ 2 tokens you end up with a 6&6&5 but if you make a few sacrifices(like say mother&Nazar, maybe Shadow and the punters blockading access to the pit's outskirts upon return from habitat) then you will find yourself with a 6&7&5 just in time for the 3 heavy duty high diplo checks i mentioned above.

Thing is you want/need to balance what you value most at any given point with a clear long term goal in mind... in my own personal case since i never tag biotech, streetwise or persuasion my goals are to reach lvl9 bio (means that i must fight at just about any opportunity that presents me with anything more then one implant to harvest) and as such i need to build up my persuasion&streetwise via tokens and perhaps speaking my way out of low implant count situations only (Storm, shuttle bay mother) if i really want that lvl7 streetwise for a special outcome(vassalage of the pit(to anyone other then monks) ; cutting a deal with the new mother of muties shut off the engines) otherwise for just vanilla talks with friendlies&neutrals a 6&6 cuts trough most check like its butter

A few caveats tho: don't do 'initiative bonus' in conveersationss(do it 3 times and its bye bye speech success with mediocre skills as the 'ask questions never' feat shutss off your diplo options pretty hard) doesn't hurt to start out with a 5cha(or 7 if you afford it) and a subliminal implant(neural dampener chiplet) for a bit of extra initial disposition.

So as far as i'm concerned one ideally wants: whatever in combat skills(look at my MC despite standing in just a 3man crew and sporting mostly 4-6 lvls for combat skills i'm still at almost 100% combat rep) a 6&6 in streetwise/persuasion(unless aiming for special endings) and a 9biotech(did experiments and in my particular case in a combat heavy run neither the first strike or predictive analytics make one lick of a difference to my crew) as missing out on the tac team is still acceptable(not ideal as it can greatly power up both Faythe(2 comfortable bullseys with a rifle per round instead of an officer pistol) and Jed(can KO two per turn with a mace instead of baton or baton smb&unload 2X double shots afterwards) while comps&locks&electros will ideally be at lvl 10... also reaching steal 8 is great way to finance your endeavors(not much point having more really)

Anyways that is about all i got to say as one of the residential hybrid builds experts and this: https://imgur.com/mUgKXLZ.png a good enough showcase is from my latest church backed run(ideal if you just want to do a more balanced run with less emphasis on combat) where i hit all my goals(didn't aim for that 7 streetwise cookie cutter) comfortably enough; its just before going to the bridge(why there and not the actual end game?! because i took 'initiative bonus' twice and my third time vs the guardian bot will give me ask questions later(inconsequential as all the talks are done only combat lays ahead(turn ship around OR go become a hero of the church))

PS: if you want an easy life go for Jonas&brotherhood otherwise if you want the most hardcore&combat heavy route go for braxton&protectors...

[flaviolunardon]

Originally posted by grraf:

So for Eden Crow all you need to succeed is this:
1)For Sheffield a 5&6 is what you will need if on a neutral stance with protectors(but can be made much easier by doing some bounty hunting for them and having a bit of cha) but can be done with less if the initial disposition is high enough
2)For Hanson to be persuaded to spare Eden a per6&7 is all it takes if on a neutral disposition but you can do some things to start with higher initial disposition(dealing with Storm(diplomacy->offer her aid via Bufford(gain some energy cells) also rescuing the spy ; stealing the plans from the protectors) naturally after convincing him to spare her you then go kill&loot her&crew then tell Hanson you had no choice but to take her out.

Yeah that is fine for the factory in terms of skill&gear gains

As for mission control(assuming you mean Shadow) its fine to nail the turrets and botch the persuasion if ya got enough initiative&fire power to make short work of them(bby that point you really should)

Thing is you don't need that much to deal with friendly/neutral factions and usually a 5&6 will carry you trough 80% of what you want&need while a 6&7 will get you everything provided you start at a higher then neutral initial disposition as the only checks that have a chance to fail against a 6&7 are the following:
1)Asking Stanton to provide assistance for hydrophonics(virtually zero impact at all(Azrael&crew may start combat with a bit fewer hp))
2)Making the pit accept a straight up 'vassalage' offer from the faction you delivered the machine to(zero impact other then unlocking a steam cheevo and getting a slightly different end slide at the epilogue describing the fate of the pit)
3)Convincing Mother 2.0 to help you stop the engines&initiate a forced landing sequence: unlocks a different ending and a mini battle with monk enforcers upon returning to the bridge(two monk guards nice and easy for just about any crew) to succeed on this one you have better been arse kissing the mutant faction long&hard so you get to start with a hefty initial disposition to succeed even if you half-fail(yellow outline but still moves the persuasion meter a bit in the right diirection) most of the speech checks.

For personal experience ill tell you the following : with zen mutation+skill monkey+ 2 tokens you end up with a 6&6&5 but if you make a few sacrifices(like say mother&Nazar, maybe Shadow and the punters blockading access to the pit's outskirts upon return from habitat) then you will find yourself with a 6&7&5 just in time for the 3 heavy duty high diplo checks i mentioned above.

Thing is you want/need to balance what you value most at any given point with a clear long term goal in mind... in my own personal case since i never tag biotech, streetwise or persuasion my goals are to reach lvl9 bio (means that i must fight at just about any opportunity that presents me with anything more then one implant to harvest) and as such i need to build up my persuasion&streetwise via tokens and perhaps speaking my way out of low implant count situations only (Storm, shuttle bay mother) if i really want that lvl7 streetwise for a special outcome(vassalage of the pit(to anyone other then monks) ; cutting a deal with the new mother of muties shut off the engines) otherwise for just vanilla talks with friendlies&neutrals a 6&6 cuts trough most check like its butter

A few caveats tho: don't do 'initiative bonus' in conveersationss(do it 3 times and its bye bye speech success with mediocre skills as the 'ask questions never' feat shutss off your diplo options pretty hard) doesn't hurt to start out with a 5cha(or 7 if you afford it) and a subliminal implant(neural dampener chiplet) for a bit of extra initial disposition.

So as far as i'm concerned one ideally wants: whatever in combat skills(look at my MC despite standing in just a 3man crew and sporting mostly 4-6 lvls for combat skills i'm still at almost 100% combat rep) a 6&6 in streetwise/persuasion(unless aiming for special endings) and a 9biotech(did experiments and in my particular case in a combat heavy run neither the first strike or predictive analytics make one lick of a difference to my crew) as missing out on the tac team is still acceptable(not ideal as it can greatly power up both Faythe(2 comfortable bullseys with a rifle per round instead of an officer pistol) and Jed(can KO two per turn with a mace instead of baton or baton smb&unload 2X double shots afterwards) while comps&locks&electros will ideally be at lvl 10... also reaching steal 8 is great way to finance your endeavors(not much point having more really)

Anyways that is about all i got to say as one of the residential hybrid builds experts and this: https://imgur.com/mUgKXLZ.png a good enough showcase is from my latest church backed run(ideal if you just want to do a more balanced run with less emphasis on combat) where i hit all my goals(didn't aim for that 7 streetwise cookie cutter) comfortably enough; its just before going to the bridge(why there and not the actual end game?! because i took 'initiative bonus' twice and my third time vs the guardian bot will give me ask questions later(inconsequential as all the talks are done only combat lays ahead(turn ship around OR go become a hero of the church))

PS: if you want an easy life go for Jonas&brotherhood otherwise if you want the most hardcore&combat heavy route go for braxton&protectors...

I see, thanks for your insights. I had 5 & 5 so I should've probably used a token on diplo.

I wrote mission control but was actually thinking Shuttle bay.

It's a tough life for hybrid builds.. I always prefer to go diplo on Bart, both because it feels right and because that fight is insane.
Also, you don't feel such a build would benefit from educated feat? I pick it in almost every run.
Another question, so your Faythe uses both rifle and pistols?

[grraf]

That pic shows only the last of my feats, scrolling up one would see before them up there is gifted(lvl1)&educated(lvl2)

Nope Faythe is my sniper but she's using an officer's pistol so she can do two bullseye shots per turn(in the more noteworthy encounters otherwise she's just running around with two revolvers)... its only with a tac team implant(+2AP) that she could afford to do two bullseye energy sniper rifle shots per round

Anyways this is my default kit for serious encounters:

https://imgur.com/njxmsdh.png <-- MC on a normal full combat run he would have 1 more lvl in armor(so hes equip penalty would be as good as gone) &shotguns(not that it matters to much as on serious combats he follows up on the sniper's KOed targets(so accuracy is pretty much a non issue)... in case of a serious emergency he can sport 2X rattlesnakes(but that is almost always overkill in my experience)

https://imgur.com/YjNkLHK.png <--Faythe the team's sniper&grenadier with quick fingers she can do 2X bullseye(and additionally on round one lob two grenades(or a grenade and activate a gadget)) the revolver is there if a bit of cheap costing fanning/arms/legs shots are preferred instead of bullseye(wasting energy cells for mop up duty isn't recommended)
If a situation is beyond dicey for her low hp(in my case a single encounter in the entire game as a result of turning the ship around) she can use a camo gadget instead of that distortion gadget to make herself scarce for a couple of turns till most things are dead.

https://imgur.com/ZOoWsnI.png <-- Jed in full tank kit can be a tad less encumbered on hands&feet if extra initiative is wanted but hes usually around just to tank&spank people to the ground for hes buddies to mercilessly unload on them (he can either KO two targets or one&double shot it and since he goes close to last the ones he KOs remain down for the next turn) ... oh btw hes quite mobile sporting 6APs per round for movement(charger feat+assault trooper chiplet)

As for theyr grenade and secondary weapon load-out reasons:
MC has second wind and will fire on Ko-ed targets so he needs low AP double shot capabilities along with heavy debuffing options(blindness&panic) to either get himself some more easy to hit targets or cripple a few more opponent's combat potential ;
Faythe as a sniper that goes first for the whole team needs to be able to disable gadgets(so bullseye can crit&KO) but also if needed put a few combatants into stasis as an extra precaution/reduce the need for extra energy cells&consumables ;
Jed is an emergency field medic(goes last so he can see who (if anybody) needs patching up and it allows for a double heal(the moment he injects a companion and right as the next turn begins since hes companions have top tier initiative) and can also lay down smoke cover for when the team move forward next turn or toss poison at the enemy crew if things look more complicated then expected(things that should have died didn't because of being missed by acc 90%+ shots and those wankers need a double whammy dose of the chill pill(gas grenade+ theyr own regen steam to demolish theyr stats)

[flaviolunardon]

Originally posted by grraf:

That pic shows only the last of my feats, scrolling up one would see before them up there is gifted(lvl1)&educated(lvl2)

Nope Faythe is my sniper but she's using an officer's pistol so she can do two bullseye shots per turn(in the more noteworthy encounters otherwise she's just running around with two revolvers)... its only with a tac team implant(+2AP) that she could afford to do two bullseye energy sniper rifle shots per round

Anyways this is my default kit for serious encounters:

https://imgur.com/njxmsdh.png <-- MC on a normal full combat run he would have 1 more lvl in armor(so hes equip penalty would be as good as gone) &shotguns(not that it matters to much as on serious combats he follows up on the sniper's KOed targets(so accuracy is pretty much a non issue)... in case of a serious emergency he can sport 2X rattlesnakes(but that is almost always overkill in my experience)

https://imgur.com/YjNkLHK.png <--Faythe the team's sniper&grenadier with quick fingers she can do 2X bullseye(and additionally on round one lob two grenades(or a grenade and activate a gadget)) the revolver is there if a bit of cheap costing fanning/arms/legs shots are preferred instead of bullseye(wasting energy cells for mop up duty isn't recommended)
If a situation is beyond dicey for her low hp(in my case a single encounter in the entire game as a result of turning the ship around) she can use a camo gadget instead of that distortion gadget to make herself scarce for a couple of turns till most things are dead.

https://imgur.com/ZOoWsnI.png <-- Jed in full tank kit can be a tad less encumbered on hands&feet if extra initiative is wanted but hes usually around just to tank&spank people to the ground for hes buddies to mercilessly unload on them (he can either KO two targets or one&double shot it and since he goes close to last the ones he KOs remain down for the next turn) ... oh btw hes quite mobile sporting 6APs per round for movement(charger feat+assault trooper chiplet)

As for theyr grenade and secondary weapon load-out reasons:
MC has second wind and will fire on Ko-ed targets so he needs low AP double shot capabilities along with heavy debuffing options(blindness&panic) to either get himself some more easy to hit targets or cripple a few more opponent's combat potential ;
Faythe as a sniper that goes first for the whole team needs to be able to disable gadgets(so bullseye can crit&KO) but also if needed put a few combatants into stasis as an extra precaution/reduce the need for extra energy cells&consumables ;
Jed is an emergency field medic(goes last so he can see who (if anybody) needs patching up and it allows for a double heal(the moment he injects a companion and right as the next turn begins since hes companions have top tier initiative) and can also lay down smoke cover for when the team move forward next turn or toss poison at the enemy crew if things look more complicated then expected(things that should have died didn't because of being missed by acc 90%+ shots and those wankers need a double whammy dose of the chill pill(gas grenade+ theyr own regen steam to demolish theyr stats)

Very useful, thanks for sharing. I followed most of your advices, but I took personal magnetism to also keep my fellow Evan, I had some troubles finding a good shotgun for MC before Mathias handed me his Reaver, but:
- I had some troubles with some tough fights 'cause I decided not to use powerful grenades before endgame, but generally it was a breeze, I obliterated the monks without breaking a sweat, and almost won the new final fight on the first try ever, but it actually took me 1 reload to obliterate Garret (I didn't even know it was in waves and went a little conservative on the last one, meeting an early demise).
- didn't manage to get more than 8 in biotech, missing a lot of chip upgrades
- failed at eden crow as said, but also at Pit Negotiations, don't know if they raised the check to 8/9 or it was always like that with Mecy..
- in the toughest fights Faythe was such a badass that it's gonna be hard to use her as skill monkey again..

Anyway thanks, I had a blast, when I finshed my previous combat run in December I was nowhere near being able to defeat Ava squad, while this time I felt so badass.

[grraf]

Getting a lvl9 in biotech can only be done with zen mutation+skill monkey and picking up biotech related training tokens at every opportunity you get while taking just about every combat that has more then one implant to harvest... its a very tight build and rather costly as you need to look out for&buy any electronic module you see and liberally use them to fix implants to 'plug the gaps' when lacking smth like 100-200SP for the next level.

Once you have the progression mapped out you will know just what you need to have at each point&where to go to push up another level and know to make a mental note of implants you failed to extract and return to them later...

None the less its worth the hassle if you can't spare a tag for biotech as lvl9 gives a fair few very nice implants to have... for me the lvl10 implants do pretty much nothing except the tac team but sacrificing a skill tag just for it is not exactly worth it imho since my crew is quite combat capable already as it stands.

Anyways up next for when i can scrounge up the time for another run i plan to ditch the data jack(Faythe is in the party so hopefully she can handle the bridge to ship interface at the end game with her implant&chiplet) and have the MC run with a heart(stress response&stat regen seems nice but i'm almost never low enough hp to matter) or spine(more armor handling may just allow me to wear a full mask penalty free so i'm immune to debuffs anyways while the added recoil control never hurts to have)...either way some number crunching needs to get done on my part to weigh in the whole heart vs spine debate before embarking on a new run.

PS:glad you enjoyed Faythe as a dedicated pistol sniper build she's very hard to surpass in terms of what she offers to the party...