Intelligence and charisma OP?

[Action Movie]

I've played Age of Decadence many times with many different builds. I am not planning my first playthrough of this game, but I am wondering: isn't charisma and int the only way to go, because then you can hire a large party of people to take care of stealth and combat, so you get the best of all worlds, whereas in AoD, you had to specialise?

[skaudus]

Charisma is very powerful overall, since the game is centered around having a party. If you're playing as a pacifist your companions don't matter very much, but as far as combat are concerned, large parties are better than solo characters.

Intelligence is ironically better on solo characters or smaller parties, as you don't have as many people to spread skills around.

That being said, solo characters can be very fun to play and have their own strengths and weaknesses. While it is harder overall, some aspects are easier (no weak links you need to keep alive).

If your aim is to have a combat-first playthrough, Intelligence and Charisma don't matter that much. Even so, with CHA 6 and a feat you can have the maximum number of companions and spread your attributes elsewhere.

Overall, Colony Ship is much less dependent on stats than AoD, as stat checks are very rare and much more minor in impact. There's a much bigger variety of character builds and you have more leverage over your character after character creation.

[Vince]

Originally posted by Action Movie:

I am wondering: isn't charisma and int the only way to go, because then you can hire a large party of people to take care of stealth and combat, so you get the best of all worlds, whereas in AoD, you had to specialise?

To add to what Skaudus said, you split quest (and to a certain degree combat) XP among the party members, so a solo character will be higher level (meaning has more feats) than a party.

[Wrath of Dagon]

But unless you do a hybrid you'll be able to do less thus your XP may not be that much higher, especially with a party of 2.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Vince:

Originally posted by Action Movie:

I am wondering: isn't charisma and int the only way to go, because then you can hire a large party of people to take care of stealth and combat, so you get the best of all worlds, whereas in AoD, you had to specialise?

To add to what Skaudus said, you split quest (and to a certain degree combat) XP among the party members, so a solo character will be higher level (meaning has more feats) than a party.

Sure, but let's not forget action economy and hit point pools. A 4-person party, roughly, attacks 4 times as often as a solo character, so even if the chance to hit is lower individually, the multiple attacks stack to increase overall damage output. Same with defense: your characters might have somewhat lower defenses, but they will have a bigger health pool than a single char.

And it's not even a given that your solo character will be that much more effective in combat, for the reason of having to spread skill points and feats across multiple skills, as opposed to having the opportunity to be more specialised in combat while leaving some of the skills to companions.

Of course, it all heavily depends on current game balance which has been changing from build to build and may keep changing even after release.

[Alattir]

Are we talking about some new changes?

Because in the current build, the quest XP is not splitted among the members. It is always 60 XP + Int modifier for everybody in group, doesn't matter if you make it solo or in group of 4 characters.

Only XP for combat/speech/stealth and 2 times for exploration is splitted.

[skaudus]

You are correct. Vince was mostly referring to how, because most of your XP will come from encounters, large parties tend to have lower levels than solo characters or duos.

[Alattir]

Originally posted by Action Movie:

I've played Age of Decadence many times with many different builds. I am not planning my first playthrough of this game, but I am wondering: isn't charisma and int the only way to go, because then you can hire a large party of people to take care of stealth and combat, so you get the best of all worlds, whereas in AoD, you had to specialise?

I don't think that it's so much OP, because you can get 3 party members with 4 CHA, which is only 1 member less than with 10 CHA.

Also with 4 CHA you can successfully complete all speech checks in the game. To do this, you just need to tag 1 speech skill - a streetwise. And making quests in a certain order.

[Elhoim]

Originally posted by Alattir:

Are we talking about some new changes?

Because in the current build, the quest XP is not splitted among the members. It is always 60 XP + Int modifier for everybody in group, doesn't matter if you make it solo or in group of 4 characters.

Only XP for combat/speech/stealth and 2 times for exploration is splitted.

Yes, that's correct, but that second part happens way more often, plus gives 90 XP.

We track the XP sources, and it's currently around 65 quest rewards and around 100 of the alternate rewards. So at base is 3900 xp from quests, and 9000 xp from alternate sources. So yeah, the vast majority of the XP is split.

Now, the balance is done in a way that solos don't get 4 times the xp, but they get around double compared to parties of 3-4.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Alattir:

I don't think that it's so much OP, because you can get 3 party members with 4 CHA, which is only 1 member less than with 10 CHA.

Spending a feat on "Personal Magnetism" is definitely an option for a Mastermind with extra feats, but most everybody else would be hard pressed for feats in the first half of the game at least, especially when having to play solo or with one party member due to 4 CHA.

I wonder what is the "golden middle" between Lone Wolf solo play and 10 CHA Cult Leader full party play. I've tried the first route in the beta, and while it sure scratched my AoD itch, it did seem kinda bare-bones. I'd like to try some kind of hybrid route which, while not gimping my main char, still allows me to have a decent enough party. Maybe Mastermind + Magnetic really is the combo I'm looking for.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Elhoim:

Originally posted by Alattir:

Are we talking about some new changes?

Because in the current build, the quest XP is not splitted among the members. It is always 60 XP + Int modifier for everybody in group, doesn't matter if you make it solo or in group of 4 characters.

Only XP for combat/speech/stealth and 2 times for exploration is splitted.

Yes, that's correct, but that second part happens way more often, plus gives 90 XP.

We track the XP sources, and it's currently around 65 quest rewards and around 100 of the alternate rewards. So at base is 3900 xp from quests, and 9000 xp from alternate sources. So yeah, the vast majority of the XP is split.

Now, the balance is done in a way that solos don't get 4 times the xp, but they get around double compared to parties of 3-4.

Very interesting data, thank you! Is the XP per level requirement unchanged since 2021? Back then we had this XP table confirmed by you:

2: 40
3: 80
4: 240
5: 440
6: 800
7: 1280
8: 2040
9: 3240
10: 5200

Is it still in force? Because if so, it seems even a full party can achieve max level by end game?

Also, how much of the XP would be available to a solo character that specialises in combat? Would he necessarily miss a significant chunk of XP due to not having the same gamut of skills as a party, or can he really be a "swiss army knife" character that is good at everything and gets access to all loot/secrets/encounters?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Look at the pinned "player-submitted" builds threads. People do very successful jack-of-all-trades builds with high INT and often Mastermind. Pure combat solo builds won't be very rewarding aside from doing battles, but you can make Faythe your skill monkey so long as you take her to the Habitat. Getting her not to hate you is a bit tricky, for one thing you'd have to peacefully resolve the Morgan quest with her present, unless that's also removed in the name of "balance".

[Alattir]

Usually solo characters are created in such a way as to gain access to all possible experience in the game.
It means that at the start of game you must have at least 8 Int and tagged persuasion or streetwise.
Otherwise you will lost a lot of exp including full questlines like "traitor" for example. If you fail it at 1st stage you will lost 4 sources of XP. Also there is at least 3 sources of speech XP in Church tower which can be failed and can't be changed to battle XP.

Also you need tagged Comp/Elec/Lockpick (with Educated perk), otherwise you will lost not so much XP, but a lot of top gear and Energy cells.

There is a 2 ways to deal with Sneak:
1. Get Prowler perk and it will be enough to get everything (usually you take it at level 7 or 8 in solo runs).
2. Tag Sneak skill after upgrading your implants.

You have to choose waht is more important to you - a perk or tagged combat combat skill.

Also you need to chose +15% skill gain mutation and most of the times you want "Lots of guns" for ranged or "Warrior" for melee to keep you weapon skill on decent level - usually you will get lvl 8 in your weapon at the end of game. Or 10 if it is tagged.

With "Dodge this" solo builds - lvl 10 in Crit can be achieved at the start of chapter Chapter 3.

"Healing Factor" solo builds have no problem with biotechnology which give them 2 free training tokens which can be used as you wish. And also +1 Initial disposition from implant which can be useful to make more fights encounters instead of speech.

"Fast runner" solo builds gives you huge evasion boost not only because it gives +100% evesion skill gain but also if you wait without using this 6 additional AP at the end of your turn, you get additional evasion. Which is pretty nice for counterattack builds.

And everybody knows about "Mastermind" I have nothing to say something special about it.

I think rest solo builds will be weaker than these 4. For example Fast runner melee usually got +1 attack per turn, huge evasion, huge initiative, free AP to run to enemies and those bonuses is much stronger than Juggernaut bonuses. +1 additional attack just negate all this bonus damage from Jugger and high evasion negate + 1 natural armor.


Regarding groups of 4 players, they usually finish at level 7. But you can also take Mastermind and Educated perks and an intelligence implant to get a higher level. Also, if you use high-level companions and give them Educated and +1 implant perks (Int), they can reach level 9 or even 10 in a duo/trio.

[Alattir]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Originally posted by Alattir:

I don't think that it's so much OP, because you can get 3 party members with 4 CHA, which is only 1 member less than with 10 CHA.

Spending a feat on "Personal Magnetism" is definitely an option for a Mastermind with extra feats, but most everybody else would be hard pressed for feats in the first half of the game at least, especially when having to play solo or with one party member due to 4 CHA.

I wonder what is the "golden middle" between Lone Wolf solo play and 10 CHA Cult Leader full party play. I've tried the first route in the beta, and while it sure scratched my AoD itch, it did seem kinda bare-bones. I'd like to try some kind of hybrid route which, while not gimping my main char, still allows me to have a decent enough party. Maybe Mastermind + Magnetic really is the combo I'm looking for.

There is not a single perk in the game that is as strong as it would be able to compensate for the loss of an additional fighter in the squad. Especially considering the fact that this fighter may have unique skills inaccessible to the main character and cause more damage per turn than the main character.

Solo/duo/trio builds are more about a challenge than about efficiency.

[skaudus]

Do keep in mind that any XP gained after your last level is essentially "wasted", so XP bonuses aren't the end all be all. They're useful if they push you over the threshold to gain another level, but if they don't they're essentially wasted.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by Alattir:

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Spending a feat on "Personal Magnetism" is definitely an option for a Mastermind with extra feats, but most everybody else would be hard pressed for feats in the first half of the game at least, especially when having to play solo or with one party member due to 4 CHA.

I wonder what is the "golden middle" between Lone Wolf solo play and 10 CHA Cult Leader full party play. I've tried the first route in the beta, and while it sure scratched my AoD itch, it did seem kinda bare-bones. I'd like to try some kind of hybrid route which, while not gimping my main char, still allows me to have a decent enough party. Maybe Mastermind + Magnetic really is the combo I'm looking for.

There is not a single perk in the game that is as strong as it would be able to compensate for the loss of an additional fighter in the squad. Especially considering the fact that this fighter may have unique skills inaccessible to the main character and cause more damage per turn than the main character.

Solo/duo/trio builds are more about a challenge than about efficiency.

So is 10 CHA Cult Leader the apex build then? Or is there a way to have a decent full party and not be gimped in combat as the MC?

The difference may be not as big as it seems, if by spending spending those 6 points not in CHA but in a combat skill and taking a different Heroic Feat (like Mastermind, or Juggernaut, or Healing Factor, or Gifted) you'll make your MC actually useful in combat thus offsetting the loss of the 4th companion.