What exactly does Recoil Control do?

[Clades]

I am talking about what effect it has on the stats. Does it reduce accuracy loss for Bursts? Or something else entirely. Sadly the game isn't very clear in that regard and I can't find an exact explanation anywhere else.

[skaudus]

It reduces accuracy loss on bursts and double shots from Shotguns, SMGs, Rifles and Pistol Double Shot (Triple Shot and Fanning are not affected).* If the recoil control value is higher than the penalty, you get an accuracy bonus!

For instance, if an attack has a penalty of 20 and you have 30 recoil control, you get a net +10 accuracy compared to a regular attack.

*I was wrong, they do work!

[LDiCesare]

Do you mean the recoil control not only negates the penalty but can also give a bonus? That sounds surprising.

[otakon17]

skaudus lähetti viestin:

It reduces accuracy loss on bursts and double shots from Shotguns, SMGs, Rifles and Pistol Double Shot (Triple Shot and Fanning are not affected). If the recoil control value is higher than the penalty, you get an accuracy bonus!

For instance, if an attack has a penalty of 20 and you have 30 recoil control, you get a net +10 accuracy compared to a regular attack.

It REALLY should affect Triple Shot and Fanning though as they have the "recoil" penalty. Not only that, why is it so bloody high? 8 STR? If you have 8 STR you already have significant Recoil Control at 16(the Recoil penalty on most guns with multi-shot attacks is between 25 and 35 IIRC?)

[skaudus]

Since Recoil Control overflows, it's basically a flat +12 accuracy on bursts and -1 AP cost. You can never have enough accuracy on bursts :D

[skaudus]

Turns out I was wrong, by the way!! They used to not work with Recoil Control, but they were changed in the December patch and I'd never noticed!

[Losmada]

Side note, the controlled burst feat doesn't reduce the AP cost of fanning and triple shot on pistols but does affect their double shot.

[skaudus]

It does now! I just checked it!

[wizard1200]

otakon17 lähetti viestin:

Not only that, why is it so bloody high? 8 STR? If you have 8 STR you already have significant Recoil Control at 16(the Recoil penalty on most guns with multi-shot attacks is between 25 and 35 IIRC?)

Yeah, the strength requirement should be reduced to 6 similar to Armored Warfare, which strength requirement of 8 neither made sense.

[Iluvcheezcake]

wizard1200 lähetti viestin:

otakon17 lähetti viestin:

Not only that, why is it so bloody high? 8 STR? If you have 8 STR you already have significant Recoil Control at 16(the Recoil penalty on most guns with multi-shot attacks is between 25 and 35 IIRC?)

Yeah, the strength requirement should be reduced to 6 similar to Armored Warfare, which strength requirement of 8 neither made sense.

Agreed

[Elhoim]

Iluvcheezcake lähetti viestin:

wizard1200 lähetti viestin:

Yeah, the strength requirement should be reduced to 6 similar to Armored Warfare, which strength requirement of 8 neither made sense.

Agreed

What's the argument in favor of lowering? "Making no sense" doesn't tell anything. I can counter with "it totally makes sense!" :P

But I'll bring an argument instead:

Stat requirements are good for creating a "tension" in the stat allocation, forcing you to sacrifice some aspects to gain others. We try not to over do it, but focusing on making it for some key builds. Burst attacks have the potential to be extremely powerful, so just outright lowering it to 6 would free up 2 stat points to use in something else like dex or per, which can feed into tipping bursts into an OP territory.

If the feat is not worth taking at 8, we can look into increasing its power, but lowering the requirement is not an option for me. The design goal is to reward investing into STR for these burst builds, not encouraging not to.

[wizard1200]

Elhoim lähetti viestin:

What's the argument in favor of lowering? "Making no sense" doesn't tell anything. I can counter with "it totally makes sense!" :P

This is the argument for lowering it:

otakon17 lähetti viestin:

If you have 8 STR you already have significant Recoil Control ...

Elhoim lähetti viestin:

Stat requirements are good for creating a "tension" in the stat allocation, forcing you to sacrifice some aspects to gain others. We try not to over do it, but focusing on making it for some key builds.

If the feat is not worth taking at 8, we can look into increasing its power, but lowering the requirement is not an option for me. The design goal is to reward investing into STR for these burst builds, not encouraging not to.

Following this 'logic' Armored Warfare should STILL have a strength requirement of 8, but instead of 'increasing its power' you lowered the strength requirement to 6!

[skaudus]

Recoil Control isn't like Armor Handling, in that you always benefit from more Recoil Control, even if you have enough for the feat. It's +12 accuracy for bursts and -1 AP, that's a great deal, especially since it applies to low-AP weapons like double shotguns and pistols.

[wizard1200]

skaudus lähetti viestin:

Recoil Control isn't like Armor Handling, in that you always benefit from more Recoil Control, even if you have enough for the feat.

Wearing a heavier armor will also help you to benefit from more Armor Handling.

[skaudus]

There are diminishing returns since you can only find armour that is so heavy. Having 40 AH is overkill. Having 40 Recoil Control is not.

You don't get extra bonuses for your armour if you're really good at wearing it, but even a short or focused burst benefits from high recoil control.

[Elhoim]

skaudus lähetti viestin:

Recoil Control isn't like Armor Handling, in that you always benefit from more Recoil Control, even if you have enough for the feat. It's +12 accuracy for bursts and -1 AP, that's a great deal, especially since it applies to low-AP weapons like double shotguns and pistols.

Also the reason we moved Armored Warfare to 6 was two create a "two step" investment into Strength, kinda like we have with other feats and stat requirements (some at 6, others at 8).

Also, as you said, it's a more general and context sensitive feat, as you need to have some particular armors to benefit from it and the handling part of it can cap out.

Those two reasons (having a feat for STR 6 investment and it being context dependent) made us chose to lower it. I don't see any of those reasons here.