Finished all the fights in the current build, but no more Energy Ammo.

[otakon17]

I burnt it all up killing the horde of mutants at the end of Hydroponics Red. Also, could we have the option to use *one* character to sneak because this whole "do it with the whole party* when only one person is even actively using it seems stupid when most of the time we can choose who to send. I swear besides the Robot and Turrets fight in the Tunnels I didn't use any Energy ammo before this and had just over 100 cells.

Like I saved after I cleared the fight obvious but should I even bother continuing from this one? I had like, 70+ cells when I entered it it's just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Creepers are so stupid tanky and regenerate HP on TOP of being able to use their stupid smokescreen multiple times a turn? Like can that get a cool down along with the stretch attack? They can do a ridiculous amount on 18AP. At the very least they should be SLOW with a short range. They don't even have what the targeting system considers LEGS!

[otakon17]

Originally posted by EvilBean:

So what you are saying is you had a fun challenging fight?

It gives out 33XP.
THIRTY THREE!
That amount needs to be tripled considering it's easily the hardest fight in the current game, that's an insulting amount. The skill XP needs to be upped too, barely gained more than single digits for that.
3 Creepers
3 Bullfrogs
1 Floater

That's a hard damn fight.

[otakon17]

Originally posted by EvilBean:

Why does it need to give out more exp?

Because the reward for the difficulty should reflect the difficulty. You got enemies that can't really be harmed by non-energy weapons, are immune to basically *every* grenade besides Stasis(which are rare and expensive) and even with two very combat heavy characters on your team it's easily the toughest fight in the game.

I just hope I don't need energy ammo later on with this run once the rest of the game gets patched in.

[otakon17]

Originally posted by EvilBean:

Is there any real reason you should be rewarded for taking on a difficult fight for no reason. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Because you're going out of your way to do it. The same reason *everything* in this game gives you something when you complete a quest or a fight, even if it's only XP/SP. Yeah you get a few items(unique semi-automatic rifle, a Jackhammer and some higher end armor pieces) but more combat SP at the very least would be nice. Still noticed despite the pounding and amount of damage my party put out and took we only got a piddling amount of skill points on top of the piddling XP reward.

[skaudus]

Pretty much. The loot at the end is pretty sweet as well.

Do keep in mind that Mission Control is supposed to be done before Hydroponics Yellow and Red. Once it's released you'll have more bounce in your bungee for the big fight.

[grraf]

Originally posted by otakon17:

I burnt it all up killing the horde of mutants at the end of Hydroponics Red. Also, could we have the option to use *one* character to sneak because this whole "do it with the whole party* when only one person is even actively using it seems stupid when most of the time we can choose who to send. I swear besides the Robot and Turrets fight in the Tunnels I didn't use any Energy ammo before this and had just over 100 cells.

Like I saved after I cleared the fight obvious but should I even bother continuing from this one? I had like, 70+ cells when I entered it it's just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Creepers are so stupid tanky and regenerate HP on TOP of being able to use their stupid smokescreen multiple times a turn? Like can that get a cool down along with the stretch attack? They can do a ridiculous amount on 18AP. At the very least they should be SLOW with a short range. They don't even have what the targeting system considers LEGS!

Well at the risk of sounding like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or come across as having some sort ungodly skill in this game all i can say is this : you don't yet have what it takes properly play this game with optimal resource management in mind nor is it likely you yet posses the tactical, heck even full understanding of combat mechanics.

Anyways a picture's worth a thousand words as they say: https://imgur.com/TVij5AU.png take notice of the following: party size&composition(not maxed out; no uber habitat companions) MC stats(5str&6per doesn't exactly bode well for a combatant) and lastly the resource count i'm left with (76 energy cell, 14+3 aggros these are fully mined nothing else in stores(made a point to buy everything just to show you how much i'm potentially left with if i'm wiling to fully empty my pokets) in addition to those the advanced grenades are still hapilly siting on the vendors shelves

Now take a carefull look at the MC's stats hes clearly not an apex build of any sort(no maxed cha or int so hes far off from being top of the line in anything and yet there he stands underdog with subpar stats&crew and oddly enough still swimming in resources
While still having done all the content via combat&stealth: https://imgur.com/3eRZqJQ.png

So by all means the above^ is just a demonstration of a small fraction of what one of use more seasoned players is capable of doing with limited resources...btw i'm one that clocked in trough out EA a 'few' hundred hours of play plenty more that have nearly double the amount of hours played and can do even more amazing stuff then I can't be bothered doing like full content solo runs/go trough the entirety of the combats with theyr starting gear only and so on.

Guess the point i'm trying to make is that each subsequent play you chose to embark on will be done with increasing amounts of knowledge&understanding of the game's mechanics to the point you need only the bare minimum of resources to get by and eventually everything becomes somewhat trivial due to picking up quests in certain orders and having perfected optimal strats for any&every significant combat encounter on the ship.

Same goes with the stealth system(btw despite my decent stealth rating on the char page i have NONE of the sneaking related feats (nor am I using Faythe to do it) for my MC...so quite a fair bit can be done on that front as well(hint you don't have to always use just one guy as another member can be used as a decoy to generate noise/leave a corpse behind to make an enemy rotate a certain way/go investigate then use a second one to capitalize...naturally you need a certain initiative order to do this(decoy acts first stealth specialist goes second to get things done))

Either way welcome to the colony ship recruit !! your training course just started and you barely dodged yr first F rating(you did complete a run after all)

PS:pardon the intrusion fellow instructors, please carry on with the cadet's instruction...my presence is likely allready missed in Vardoran, screw you Adam the first born, one of these days neither you nor yr cheap ass moves are going to save you from my tactical brilliance and you will end up just like all the rest of them did: a minor footnote in the autobiography of the second vampiric ascension !

[otakon17]

Originally posted by grraf:

Originally posted by otakon17:

I burnt it all up killing the horde of mutants at the end of Hydroponics Red. Also, could we have the option to use *one* character to sneak because this whole "do it with the whole party* when only one person is even actively using it seems stupid when most of the time we can choose who to send. I swear besides the Robot and Turrets fight in the Tunnels I didn't use any Energy ammo before this and had just over 100 cells.

Like I saved after I cleared the fight obvious but should I even bother continuing from this one? I had like, 70+ cells when I entered it it's just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Creepers are so stupid tanky and regenerate HP on TOP of being able to use their stupid smokescreen multiple times a turn? Like can that get a cool down along with the stretch attack? They can do a ridiculous amount on 18AP. At the very least they should be SLOW with a short range. They don't even have what the targeting system considers LEGS!

Well at the risk of sounding like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or come across as having some sort ungodly skill in this game all i can say is this : you don't yet have what it takes properly play this game with optimal resource management in mind nor is it likely you yet posses the tactical, heck even full understanding of combat mechanics.

Anyways a picture's worth a thousand words as they say: https://imgur.com/TVij5AU.png take notice of the following: party size&composition(not maxed out; no uber habitat companions) MC stats(5str&6per doesn't exactly bode well for a combatant) and lastly the resource count i'm left with (76 energy cell, 14+3 aggros these are fully mined nothing else in stores(made a point to buy everything just to show you how much i'm potentially left with if i'm wiling to fully empty my pokets) in addition to those the advanced grenades are still hapilly siting on the vendors shelves

Now take a carefull look at the MC's stats hes clearly not an apex build of any sort(no maxed cha or int so hes far off from being top of the line in anything and yet there he stands underdog with subpar stats&crew and oddly enough still swimming in resources
While still having done all the content via combat&stealth: https://imgur.com/3eRZqJQ.png

So by all means the above^ is just a demonstration of a small fraction of what one of use more seasoned players is capable of doing with limited resources...btw i'm one that clocked in trough out EA a 'few' hundred hours of play plenty more that have nearly double the amount of hours played and can do even more amazing stuff then I can't be bothered doing like full content solo runs/go trough the entirety of the combats with theyr starting gear only and so on.

Guess the point i'm trying to make is that each subsequent play you chose to embark on will be done with increasing amounts of knowledge&understanding of the game's mechanics to the point you need only the bare minimum of resources to get by and eventually everything becomes somewhat trivial due to picking up quests in certain orders and having perfected optimal strats for any&every significant combat encounter on the ship.

Same goes with the stealth system(btw despite my decent stealth rating on the char page i have NONE of the sneaking related feats (nor am I using Faythe to do it) for my MC...so quite a fair bit can be done on that front as well(hint you don't have to always use just one guy as another member can be used as a decoy to generate noise/leave a corpse behind to make an enemy rotate a certain way/go investigate then use a second one to capitalize...naturally you need a certain initiative order to do this(decoy acts first stealth specialist goes second to get things done))

Either way welcome to the colony ship recruit !! your training course just started and you barely dodged yr first F rating(you did complete a run after all)

PS:pardon the intrusion fellow instructors, please carry on with the cadet's instruction...my presence is likely allready missed in Vardoran, screw you Adam the first born, one of these days neither you nor yr cheap ass moves are going to save you from my tactical brilliance and you will end up just like all the rest of them did: a minor footnote in the autobiography of the second vampiric ascension !

Yeah I did the fight with a mostly pacifist MC with very low offensive skills carried by Knurl and Cobra. I've also ran through the whole game(as such currently) some three times, with smaller combat focused party, a full party with a CHA MC leader and some attack skill and the low CHA, high INT group now. I got some 60 hours of running around the current game so I think I have some kind of handle on it.

In the other two "complete" runs, I managed to keep 60+ cells. As the game isn't complete yet, there's still time to tweak things. Like reducing Initiative values or maybe not make the Creeper so OP.

[skaudus]

By the way, initiative values for the Hydro Red fight were increased after the first beta patch because it was too easy. It's meant to be just a bit easier than it is now, since you'll get more stuff in Mission Control.

[talionthered]

Originally posted by grraf:

Now take a carefull look at the MC's stats hes clearly not an apex build of any sort(no maxed cha or int so hes far off from being top of the line in anything and yet there he stands underdog with subpar stats&crew and oddly enough still swimming in resources
While still having done all the content via combat&stealth: https://imgur.com/3eRZqJQ.png

Same goes with the stealth system(btw despite my decent stealth rating on the char page i have NONE of the sneaking related feats (nor am I using Faythe to do it) for my MC...so quite a fair bit can be done on that front as well(hint you don't have to always use just one guy as another member can be used as a decoy to generate noise/leave a corpse behind to make an enemy rotate a certain way/go investigate then use a second one to capitalize...naturally you need a certain initiative order to do this(decoy acts first stealth specialist goes second to get things done))

I have 160 energy cells by the current end point. That's not a flex, and I didn't even do all the combat content. It's making a point: a character with Master Trader might have doors opened that a pure combat character wouldn't, including the ability to afford lots of stasis grenades. Then again, not killing enough might mean some doors close forever.

[otakon17]

Originally posted by talionthered:

Originally posted by grraf:

Now take a carefull look at the MC's stats hes clearly not an apex build of any sort(no maxed cha or int so hes far off from being top of the line in anything and yet there he stands underdog with subpar stats&crew and oddly enough still swimming in resources
While still having done all the content via combat&stealth: https://imgur.com/3eRZqJQ.png

Same goes with the stealth system(btw despite my decent stealth rating on the char page i have NONE of the sneaking related feats (nor am I using Faythe to do it) for my MC...so quite a fair bit can be done on that front as well(hint you don't have to always use just one guy as another member can be used as a decoy to generate noise/leave a corpse behind to make an enemy rotate a certain way/go investigate then use a second one to capitalize...naturally you need a certain initiative order to do this(decoy acts first stealth specialist goes second to get things done))

I have 160 energy cells by the current end point. That's not a flex, and I didn't even do all the combat content. It's making a point: a character with Master Trader might have doors opened that a pure combat character wouldn't, including the ability to afford lots of stasis grenades. Then again, not killing enough might mean some doors close forever.

You'll miss out on some unique weapons/armor with just dialogue'ing your way through sections you could fight through. But yeah by the time I reach Hydroponics Yellow, where you really need to use Energy weapons to even do effective damage against Creepers I had over 100 cells collected throughout the game through finding them or salvaging what small amount I could in combat(they should give enemies with Energy weapons a back up so they don't burn through the exceedingly limited quantity cells so easily).

And don't even get me started on the Energy Bladed Melee weapons; they're literally two awesome to use. And on anything you'd want/need to use them on they're *way* too dangerous to get up in their face without specific gear setups.

[talionthered]

Originally posted by otakon17:

You'll miss out on some unique weapons/armor with just dialogue'ing your way through sections you could fight through. But yeah by the time I reach Hydroponics Yellow, where you really need to use Energy weapons to even do effective damage against Creepers I had over 100 cells collected throughout the game through finding them or salvaging what small amount I could in combat(they should give enemies with Energy weapons a back up so they don't burn through the exceedingly limited quantity cells so easily).

And don't even get me started on the Energy Bladed Melee weapons; they're literally two awesome to use. And on anything you'd want/need to use them on they're *way* too dangerous to get up in their face without specific gear setups.

I'm sure I've missed something, if not a lot of things. Interesting fact: Jed is a very good character for melee and heavy armor, but that precludes using an Energy Shield to protect him. His current anti-ballistic potential is similar to a major combat robot, so I'm not sure that matters- yet.

Still, while I generally hold back on Energy Melee, you'd be very surprised how badly even one strike can set back an entire mob of enemies.

By the way, I spent 100 energy cells by endgame, at least. I'd feel silly about it, except I have that -and- more. Don't think of them as ammo: think of them as currency. Not everyone can get them, and they're not useful to all. But with the right perks, you can arbitrage them into a commanding position for the endgame.

[skaudus]

Originally posted by otakon17:

You'll miss out on some unique weapons/armor with just dialogue'ing your way through sections you could fight through.

It's not that much – Jonas' jacket is the only good one out of the three bosses in Chapter 1, and it's hardly necessary. You get Menzel's 5-shooter if you kill him, but that's hardly stellar loot either. Other than that I can't think of anything that you don't get by dialoguing through or sneaking.

In fact, most of my playthroughs are pacifist whenever possible and I still slam-dunk the optional fights.