Fast Runner. - My latest playthrough.

[stadtpark-hartmut]

I usually play Cult Leader, but this time Fast Runner it was.

(I had experimented with other Heroic Feats before: Mastermind/Int; Healing Factor/Con.)


What I tried to achieve:
To keep MainChar relevant for combat.

It only worked out mediocre, as I will explain: with the Initiative Bonus from Fast Runner, I made MainChar the grenade thrower and saved Evans the "Fast Draw" feat. But Evans ended up with one less levelup anyway (without Educated and MainChar not being Cult Leader this time); so not much was won in the end.

The other thing I had not thought through: to keep high Initiative, MainChar was limited to light armor: this made him extremely squishy. Especially since I was short 1 point of constitution - and with that also short one implant slot as well.

As I wanted to keep Charisma 9 for Captain (in order to do my usual diplomatic and stealth centered playthrough with the full team), I ended up with only 5 (later 7) Int. -Which meant I was short on tags. - And as I wanted to stay combat relevant, I even put one tag as a weapons tag. That did not pay off as much as I hoped, as I went with Shotguns this time, and there simply are no high accuracy Shotguns... (- usually I go without a weapons tag, but use that +12 Acc Pistol (Hauser 74) which would have earned a similar accuracy of slightly above 100).

What I would do differently next time:
Tag Biotech instead of the weapons tag (and use the high acc pistol instead of shotguns). - I ended up ruining so many implants, it was utterly horrible; 6 ruined Subdermals, 7 or 8 damaged hearts, 2 damaged spines I think... - maybe even one or two more damaged or ruined lower ones in the beginning. I only reached Biotech lvl 5 with the very last fight. Not recommended.

I experimented with Evans (and Faythe) as Pistolero:
It worked quite nicely, but having that Energy Rifle and that Outrider without using it (- not even speaking of Moses specially gifted Pipe Dream) really hurt. - Faythe would probably be better served going rifle again, freeing that +12 acc pistol for MC as discussed. - I'd probably allow Evans to stay Pistolero / wield the Officer Pistol, as Knurl and Garret (for slightly different reasons) are better used doing standard shots all the time for maximum damage output. (Officer Pistol can do Bullseye; Heavy Energy Pistol and Colt can't.)

Conclusion:
Wearing only light armor requires a very different playstyle than I am used to.

My MainChar died more often than I like to admit: while "Fast Runner" allows for retreats over the whole map, as you never get reaction shots aimed at you (- which is quite nice), I usually was drawn into exposing myself in the first round. With 63 Initiative and those 2 free movement, it is very tempting to rush in behind enemy cover and place a leg shot as a starter (- additionally to the grenade throwing). But sometimes I just ended up overexposed / gunned down in a single round, before I could retreat in the 2nd round.

Compared to the "Healing Factor" / 12 CON playthrough, surviving requires much more micro-management.
Compared to my usual Cult Leader playthroughs: there I was never tempted to actually do something useful in combat, as wearing that heavy armor always made me move last; with usually staying back in cover in the first place that tends to prevent dying well enough most of the time.

Edit: P.S.: I wasted like 1350 credits for buying stuff early (before Master Trader, as I picked Shotgunner early). Not to speak of all the wasted credits from selling ruined implants instead of intact ones...

[stadtpark-hartmut]

Overall I had great fun trying something new.

Comparing Accuracy - Inventory Page Screenshots

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947458762
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947460054
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947465164
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947465950
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947460795
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947461852

Comparing Feats / Builds - Character Page Screenshots
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947462814
Evans is also missing the Educated feat this time.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947468875
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947467573
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947466610
I think Faythe did not reach Computers 7 this time, because I chose a different Training Token in ECLSS (- and didn't go with Skill Monkey as the last Feat).

[stadtpark-hartmut]

10 screenshots per comment seems to be the maximum displayable... - just to complete the line-up (- nothing new here).

I guess I should have given Knurl the "Bridge Officer" Chip instead... - the way I did it both miss out on the next level...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947463605
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947464427

Edit: P.S.: I keep missing out on the 2nd Frankenstein Mask in my latest playthroughs - does anybody remember where to loot that? (The one I got is from taking down the three guards with the "Spy Escape" quest IIRC.) FINAL EDIT: no idea why I did not loot the 2nd Frankenstein from the Toxic Court Fight this time. - I did in my very latest playthrough though.

Edit 2: Shouldn't I get some Church Rep for solving the Eden / Traitor quest in Abrahams way? I went back to him and did not receive reputation.

Maybe the reputation was awarded a step earlier instead of the last step of the quest? I mean: with giving the Machine to the Brotherhood, I technically don't really work 100% for Abraham, but I also don't work 100% for the Brotherhood, as I lied to Hanson / used the fabricated evidence to put Eden into Abrahams pocket... - and I don't actually work for the Protectors, despite fighting the Soldier of Fortune / Junction fight for them and doing all their Bounty Hunts, but I lied concerning the survival of the Spy. As always I only truly work for Jonas (and Stanton) and Moses Jackson this time.

Edit 3: On a sidenote; it took me a while to really appreciate that keeping Moses in Charge of the Shuttle Bay (instead of switching to Nico) is not generally worse: I was always overly fixated on making sure to get the sneaking action on Rowley; or at least do some funny Church-Impersonation. - But with staying with Moses, one does get the talking xp from sending Mother to the Pit; and one does indeed get talking xp for making Moses stick with Jonas and Stanton: while I did not keep tabs / calculated the difference, just because the story is a tiny bit less hilarious, does not make it a generally worse option: I think the special Pipedream Rifle is a good reward, and the talking xp difference between Church-Impersonation and the Mother / Moses convincing might not be that different. - Ok: I mean: sneaking xp is always valuable in itself, plus some extra loot and Biotech xp (and one lockpick?)... - Hm. Might be worth looking deeper into; but doing what Jonas wanted me to do (secure the Alliance with Moe Jackson) also felt good, and the talking xp was more than I had remembered.

[grraf]

So you attempted to build smth akin to my below posted MC but got greedy and wanted captain instead...umm bruh ya all ready got Jed(some others also have enough cha) he can be a sarge that's quite enough no need to screw over a perfectly competent MC for nothing at all flat(+4acc&20 reaction is the difference from sarge to captain)
https://imgur.com/WVjj27s.png
https://imgur.com/iTlwzvX.png
While fast runner is smth nice for the average shirt wearing dodger its f' all relevant for a dermal upgraded medium or heavy armored shield user as reactions literally do no dmg to them...
As for the diplomacy side of things I could have solved everything via speech with this guy(did experiment along the way) except Storm&Rigs... while on the stealth side of things(ignore the -20 on covenant that was a mistake didn't realize killing mother 'permabans' me from the heart) i could handle all but guard pairs directly facing each other(like the pair in the factory) anyways prowler seems like an inevitability in the long run for stealth builds so ill likely be forced to bite the bullet on that feat despite having my eye set on other more combat oriented ones
PS:tagging bio tech is rather wastefull if skill monkey/zen mutation is in the picture(my total dmg implants count was like 7(fixed those via electro) and i only scrapped 2 dermals) but yeah some things can go tag less and still remain relevant if manged properly(could have likely bumped my steal to 5 or 6 as well if more was needed to pickpocket napping targets but it was better to dump that tag on Jed so he can get everything else(barring the heavy pistol in the heart gate house).
Anyways self sufficient hybrids are a PITA to design and then keep up to snuff on every damn thing most of the times yr just better off narrowing yr focus and building a specialist otherwise yr going down the min-maxing meta hole and will always be barely getting by due to having to stretch yrself too thin

[stadtpark-hartmut]

Well, you did way more fighting and included Stealth into MC.
I have mad respect for all the MC builds that include Electronics and Computers and Stealth in their MC. - This is the real edge of Min-Maxing. Some even do Lone Wolf runs.

But I just love my Thief-Faythe too much, so I never actually end up sneaking with MC.
As for Computers and Electronics: if I was Mastermind, I might consider putting that on MC, in order to free some fighting tags for Faythe, but with not having any free combat feats, that will end up a lukewarm compromise - just that kind of trap you described.

But this time I really wanted to try one of the Heroic Feats I had not done before.

I just like my MC to be a talker, thus the Cha 9 is not only for Captain but also preserves most of the "Initial Disposition" Bonus (except one). Master Trader would have required 7 anyway, then spending one extra for full team without having to waste a feat seemed not too much to ask, and then going for 9 for the extra Initial Disposition and sticking with Captain (as I always do), did not seem that much of a stretch. - I already "weakened" my team by not going Cult Leader. - I guess I tend to play the same game over and over ever changing so slightly incrementally - I tend to kind of get stuck in that local over-maximizing for Diplomacy-specializaton. - Incrementally I gave up on the Streetwise tag and one point of Cha / "Initial Disposition" this time.

Even though you showed me that one does not need a talkers tag whatsoever, I'm not really over it...

Maybe finally I will try my own Juggernaut / Huggy-Bears-Murderhobo playthrough: Blunt Jed gave me a hint of how much fun it might be.

While on the one hand I do admire those Lone Wolf Level 10 runs, and the "Ask Questions Later" feat seems like its own achievement, I really like the niche I'm in: I really grew close to my team: I really like having Thief-Faythe and Sniper-Evans and CQC-Jed. And my Diplo-Optimized Mainchar. (- not to speak of dual Colt-Garret and the dual Heavy-Energy-Pistol Knurl).


I think I only ever did one playthrough where Mercy ruled the Pit and maybe two where Braxton ruled the Pit, and that is so far back, that the Heart-content was not in yet. I think I only ever gave the Machine to the Church or the Protectors to just see the stats of Mathias and Cobra, and I never did a full playthrough sticking with purely Church or purely Protectors.

[grraf]

@stadtpark-hartmut not needing a talkers tags whatsoever is somewhat misleading as even tho I indeed used no tags I still had to carefully plot my course for instance:
0)A minimum of one token needs to be 'wasted' on speech skills(probably two if ever reaching 6 in either streetwise or persuasion is smth i want in the future)
1)In order to get an audience with Abraham i had to cash in a few favors by solving church quests in the pit and in the brotherhood's hub help out a fellow 'believer' in need all in order to bump up my initial disposition with the church so I can BS the love&peace preacher that was a thorn in Elona's side...
2)In order to smooth things up with Shefield and have him trust me despite me playing double agent and setting the brotherhood spy loose so i can have two save game points(in one I pretend i killed the spy and i'm a loyal ally and another that lets me broker an alliance between the brotherhood&protector's military commander in order to bring down the protectors council and achieve peace among the 2 warring factions) ...in order for those to become possible needed to do a bit of bounty hunting&hand over the shuttle bay to the protectors no questions asked in order to boost up my standing with the protectorate and seem like the perfect lap dog merc crew content with chewing on whatever scraps my new masters see fit to feed me.
3)Failing to bring in Storm under Bufford's thumb is also smth deliberate as that f'er sent me arse first into the frying pan and ill be damned if i'm the reason that glorified doorman gets promoted to any position of relevance within the protectorate...

So as you can see i can smoth talk either neutral parties or friendly ones that already trust my due to previously favorable&profitable interactions with my crew but I can't&likely won't be able to swing $hit in the future with those i had any kind of hostile interaction(not that i care as most of those are either gone or are simply not factions id like to work with in the future: the silver tongue church that wants nothing more then perpetual war and the proud liberators of already free regions(was taking a very nice nap when those brotherhood troopers wanted to annex pit's vile my beloved birth place) my only regret for the last run was getting on the bad side of the heart dwellers there i was thinking its just a petty leadership exchange i'm facilitating but no instead got left holding the bag next time around ill just limit my self to stealing&shoping in yr nice town folks pinky promise limited bloodshed mode only(the friend of Jed's enemy is also my enemy no questions asked i'm afraid))

[stadtpark-hartmut]

Right now I started redoing / iterating on the Fast Runner playthrough with Charisma 8 (for Sharp Face Armory L2) and 7 Int from the start (+2), plus one extra Con (4 Implant slots).

The additionalk +1 Dex from Dex implant gives +5 Initiative to make up for the -6 Ini lost on Perception (starting with 4 Per instead of 6). Will have Sarge instead of Captain, and will take different tokens (- Faythe gets a Rifle Token from Armory instead of the Sneaking token, so she at least starts out with Rifle 3 before doing any fighting).

Will be interesting to see wether I can still do all the major sneaking / takedown stuff and talking stuff. I might just do a little more talking and a little less sneaking overall. (I already incrementally went that way in the last playthrough: ended up with 40 Stealth Rep instead of my usual 47).

[grraf]

Umm if the only reason you are taking 8cha is for that single armory check then its a waste even a 6cha will do there if you got high enough persuasion&streetwise... so unless you really want a max sized crew yr more then well served by 7cha(why ?! because this gives +2 initial disposition same as 8cha does with the only 'downside' being a smaller party but then again it all depends on what you are most comfortable with for me a 3man crew has optimal killing potential(as much as 3 enemy per turn but generally any two targets per turn I want knocked out are a safe bet) while still retaining a faster level up pace.
Btw I have also considered bumping up my MC's cha to 7 and starting out with just 5per this way i can pass all speech checks due to the extra initial disposition while also being able boost up my companions performance with another sarge(if two sarge bonuses can stack then ill likely go for this build on my next run otherwise i wouldn't bother(why ?! boosting just Jed is not worth the cost of a feat slot but if it also boosts Faythe(as in her getting 2X sarge bonus ,one from MC and another from Jed) then its well worth it since she will likely have a guaranteed first spot in the initiative queue under any circumstance(if memory serves, so far within the existing content she lost the first draw twice))

[stadtpark-hartmut]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2951522233

All the main stealth-occasions I wanted to take were still possible: while Thief Faythe missed out on some occasions, she still has all the usual required Feats and tags, even with changing the tokens around a bit and not truly maximizing sneaking xp, as I did more talking: compare General Reputation Stealth vs Diplomacy.

Latest iteration Faythe: Stealth Reputation 36 Diplomacy 75
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2951516189

Faythe in the original Fast Runner playthrough: Stealth Reputation 40 Diplomacy 70
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2947466610

Faythe in a Maximum Stealth-Reputation playthrough: Stealth Reputation 47 Diplomacy 59
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2941843486
Even if I had spent that last unspent feat here for Skill Monkey: Sneak would still be level 8 (- even if pretty close to the levelup to 9).

[grraf]

Very nice indeed^ one thing tho why bother taking ghost with Faythe ?! she already has thief for you...heck even my basic no stealth feats 7sneak MC can handle all but pairs of guards directly facing each other. Prowler on the other hand is a must have to nail everything while throat slither is meh unless you are having trouble raising yr crit skill.

[stadtpark-hartmut]

Originally posted by grraf:

Very nice indeed^ one thing tho why bother taking ghost with Faythe ?! she already has thief for you...heck even my basic no stealth feats 7sneak MC can handle all but pairs of guards directly facing each other. Prowler on the other hand is a must have to nail everything while throat slither is meh unless you are having trouble raising yr crit skill.

I guess my original Talker MainChars were way over-optimized for Talking (with three talker tags and 5 initial disposition / 10 Charisma) - and so my usual Faythe was (and still is) also way over-optimized for sneaking (Noise 4). - You are right: there is still more Min-Maxing to do in shaving off some "fat" here or there. - I just know the sneak scenarios by heart now, and I love my perfect Takedowns of all the guards. The only occasioin still bugging me is Menzel: I can loot everything and get out undetected, but I go with killing him anyway, as I want the loot more than the extra sneak-xp. - I would love to use Takedowns there, but after the first one I get detected and focused down: so I always have to initiate combat and use Cloak to vanish to survive while the team finishes the job - I would probably need to go for Tunnel Runner and earlier 2nd Wind, and relearn ALL the sneak scenarios. I really love my perfect takedowns: even leaving one guard standing makes me sad, and I'd probably run that risk with different sneak feats.

Overall I'm quite satisfied. Shouldn't have given Brigde Officer Chip to Knurl though... - might need to go back on that decision once the Bridge gets introduced. (Now he probably has to be the one entering the Bridge; or at least be in the Crew when it comes to that.)

Edit: maybe there is even "fat" to be redistributed on MainChar: If I went with one Int less, I would miss out on 10% xp, and the last tag (Impersonate) would only become available with overclocking / after promising the machine to the Habitat and entering ECLSS. But I would gain 1 attribute point that could either be spent on Charisma (- thus enabling Captain again instead of Sarge and plus one Disposition), or could be spent on Con (-thus gaining 5 hp and another implant slot for a Heart or Subdermal Armor).

The question is: how much Impersonate do I need for unavoidable Habitat quests (and Factory and Pit before; as the Int-Implant (that this time gave the last tag early) stems very early from the Armory Elevator SCAVS) : in my case The Coming Storm; in other cases Spy Escape or convincing John the Peace-Preacher. - Not much if I remember correctly. - And according to my original Fast Runner playthrough, I still had enough xp to go to Level 6 even with less Int - so the 10% xp are not a deciding factor.