PC and Faythe Build Help

[rock]

Don't have the game yet, played the demo quite a bit and now am trying to plan ahead for the full release. I want to run a full party using different weapon categories, if possible.

The problem is that I am struggling with weapon selection for my main and Faythe. Quick recap: Evans ticked with rifles and critical (and then armor), Jed ticked with shotguns and biotech (and maybe something else later). Here's the mc just starting out:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3007825394

Implants to get: Bionic Eye (OC), Neural Uplink, Motor Cortex (OC), and Squad Leader (OC).
Feats to get: Educated, Captain, everything else.

I'm leaning on running the main with SMGs and giving Faythe pistols, but I don't know how viable SMGs are with low strength due to recoil. I plan to run Faythe as a skill monkey with lots of sneaking abilities, the stealth gadget, and ticking critical strike and weapon of choice when I can OC her Neural Uplink.

I ran the demo with a very similar party build already and I didn't really think my main wielding a pistol was doing all that well. Any advice on how to plan ahead is appreciated.

[grraf]

Well regarding your MC i recommend dropping one point of per and tossing it into either dex or con , as to why simply put you can overclock any implant you got installed for a paltry 2K quite early in the game and doing 3 overclocks has almost no downsides(-5HP) and he should be a rifleman with enough AP's to do this much per turn: one burst/one bullseye/one aimed limbs shot+gadget activation/grenade toss.
Alternatively shotguns are also a nice low investment but high efficiency option to consider(if you got high con and don't mind getting close to enemys) while Jed can easily be a devastatingly competent tank&melee blunt user.
Don't even consider SMG unless you are willing to toss everything a char has into it , that means dedicating both stat allocation&feats exclusively towards it.

As for Faythe if the goal is being relevant in combat then she needs to have at least this much fast draw+pistolero(you will get why soon enough for now lets just say having high turn initiative can save you a lot of headaches while steady crits have a way of rounding out mediocre dmg outputs/partially bypass heavy duty armors)

Anyways ill link bellow a few images to see the kind of things you can expect from Jed/Faythe in the role&configuration i mentioned.

Jed
https://imgur.com/8Zop3jt.png
https://imgur.com/hLsSkvL.png <- notice the armor DR&excellent potential to hold the line.
Faythe
https://imgur.com/FgqeKDM.png
https://imgur.com/vMGLkxz.png <-- her max crit chance for a bullseye is 88% and she can do two of them per round with motor cortex+agro

[rock]

Solid advice, thanks. How do you feel about dropping the eye implant and getting spine instead for Jed? I imagine the 1 extra damage might be a bit of help for melee. I'm thinking for Faythe I'm going to go for fast draw for grenade duty, then stealth and position her for pistol shots. That will open up Evans for more gun-related perks. Since Faythe is skill monkeying I will opt for thief over assassin, but the way you have her set up she's quite the crit machine.

For main shotguns are definitely a thing. But I won't have heavy armor due for tanking since strength is only 4. Definitely a few build possibilities here. Kind of sad that SMGs aren't all that viable.

[HuggyBear]

SMGs are super viable, possibly overpowered in certain builds, but they need specific builds to make them strong, otherwise you end up pinging off of chest armor for half the game.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/648410/discussions/0/3172198151251693365/?ctp=29#c3808406007552223339

[grraf]

Originally posted by rock:

Solid advice, thanks. How do you feel about dropping the eye implant and getting spine instead for Jed? I imagine the 1 extra damage might be a bit of help for melee. I'm thinking for Faythe I'm going to go for fast draw for grenade duty, then stealth and position her for pistol shots. That will open up Evans for more gun-related perks. Since Faythe is skill monkeying I will opt for thief over assassin, but the way you have her set up she's quite the crit machine.

For main shotguns are definitely a thing. But I won't have heavy armor due for tanking since strength is only 4. Definitely a few build possibilities here. Kind of sad that SMGs aren't all that viable.

Never give up an eye implant slot for a spinal one !! this is what a full ocular implant gives you: https://imgur.com/MhmedAa.png (also notice the very nice DR values on the MC despite hes lite armor preference) you do NOT want to trade those for a paltry +1-2 dmg per swing with a much lower accuracy(lets say you got 3 swings per turn but an OC-ed eye ensures you land all 3 of them(+16acc on aimed from the full eye bonuses) as opposed to landing just 2 and one miss/graze for 2dmg(or even worse) if you would have the spinal instead, do you honestly think you can even come close to breaking even in that scenario(that is without even mentioning the extra bonus to crit,resistance to flashbang and added thermal vision) ?! By far atm the strongest individual implant to have is the one on the ocular slot.

A side note would be the extra armor handling gained from a spinal implant and thus having higher str+heavy infantry man upgrade but just for reference in order to wear the heavyist set of lite armor that doesn't give any AP or initiative penalty without armored warfare all you need is 4str+lvl6 armor(easy enough to reach if you use an energy shield/energy vests and you will keep and adequate armor handling growth pace all the way from start trough to having access to those end game armors)... Its only for wearing the heavy duty armors when the need for armored warfare+6str+spinal becomes a must have if you wish to avoid severe loss of APs, initiative&evasion.

Anyways i also like running a 'lite armored' MC build but due to stacking high con+ OC-ed dermal with an energy shield he can tank so much dmg its not even funny i had several fights were a squad full of enemys focused fire on him for 2-3 turns and barely managed to chip away more then half hes HP.

Bellow ill post my favorite skillmonkey tank MC build, take a look at what he's feats&tags and despite that hes a bonafied front line trench buster:
https://imgur.com/ABfM4Nj.png <--notice hes overall beefy stats thanks to starting out with 9con and then installing&OC-ing hes implants(5 out 6 are OC-ed)

[MateSalsa]

Originally posted by grraf:

Originally posted by rock:

Solid advice, thanks. How do you feel about dropping the eye implant and getting spine instead for Jed? I imagine the 1 extra damage might be a bit of help for melee. I'm thinking for Faythe I'm going to go for fast draw for grenade duty, then stealth and position her for pistol shots. That will open up Evans for more gun-related perks. Since Faythe is skill monkeying I will opt for thief over assassin, but the way you have her set up she's quite the crit machine.

For main shotguns are definitely a thing. But I won't have heavy armor due for tanking since strength is only 4. Definitely a few build possibilities here. Kind of sad that SMGs aren't all that viable.

Never give up an eye implant slot for a spinal one !! this is what a full ocular implant gives you: https://imgur.com/MhmedAa.png (also notice the very nice DR values on the MC despite hes lite armor preference) you do NOT want to trade those for a paltry +1-2 dmg per swing with a much lower accuracy(lets say you got 3 swings per turn but an OC-ed eye ensures you land all 3 of them(+16acc on aimed from the full eye bonuses) as opposed to landing just 2 and one miss/graze for 2dmg(or even worse) if you would have the spinal instead, do you honestly think you can even come close to breaking even in that scenario(that is without even mentioning the extra bonus to crit,resistance to flashbang and added thermal vision) ?! By far atm the strongest individual implant to have is the one on the ocular slot.

A side note would be the extra armor handling gained from a spinal implant and thus having higher str+heavy infantry man upgrade but just for reference in order to wear the heavyist set of lite armor that doesn't give any AP or initiative penalty without armored warfare all you need is 4str+lvl6 armor(easy enough to reach if you use an energy shield/energy vests and you will keep and adequate armor handling growth pace all the way from start trough to having access to those end game armors)... Its only for wearing the heavy duty armors when the need for armored warfare+6str+spinal becomes a must have if you wish to avoid severe loss of APs, initiative&evasion.

Anyways i also like running a 'lite armored' MC build but due to stacking high con+ OC-ed dermal with an energy shield he can tank so much dmg its not even funny i had several fights were a squad full of enemys focused fire on him for 2-3 turns and barely managed to chip away more then half hes HP.

Bellow ill post my favorite skillmonkey tank MC build, take a look at what he's feats&tags and despite that hes a bonafied front line trench buster:
https://imgur.com/ABfM4Nj.png <--notice hes overall beefy stats thanks to starting out with 9con and then installing&OC-ing hes implants(5 out 6 are OC-ed)

Are you sure that an eye implant is better for Jed than the spinal one?
With the spinal he gets controlled burst feat which along with the birst implant chip lets him hit 70-80% of doubleshoots instead of the 10%-20% hit chance without.
-1 ap so he does 2 doubleshoots in one turn (+1 reload). That's 20+ damage even to a well armored opponent.

Adding as well second wind and he can annihilate more people per round if lucky,
I think spinal implant is essential to Jed at least for shotgun build that is.
OP mentioned melee though, so ok, never used Jed as melee.

[grraf]

@MateSalsa doesn't really mater as Jed can have all the implants except subliminal&neural ones if he picks up the bionic feat...as a side note for double shots having better all purpose acc is much more important then pissing away 4X doubles per round only to land two of them and crit on just one of them(having a sniper KO smb before Jed gets to unload hes barrels is a separate case where acc is almost a non issue) but also don't underestimate what getting flashbanged does to yr chances to land a double shot.. as opposed to being immune to both it &smoke with a glare shield+good helmet selection.

In my experience placing bets on luck rather then certainty is only acceptable if you are into playing reload simulator deluxe edition...as far as i'm concerned if you need more then a single reload to get past all but the most hardcore combats then yr party comp&builds selection is in need of serious rehauling.

Either way recoil control is just one of those ♥♥♥♥ feats that cost you an arm&leg with debatable results if id have to chose id rather have my eye implant boost up my per to 8(sharpshooter+big game hunter opens up) rather then have my spine up my str to 8 only to open recoil control just so i become a better gambler.

Anyways think its a coincidence that the best smg builds out there(Cobra&Smiles) were given str as theyr dump stat instead of per ?! despite SMG primarily being a spray&pray weapon exactly like a double shotgunner build...then you would also have superior initiative to consider as a plus for having 8per instead of 8str.

Feel free to ask around/check the builds threads to see what is more prevalent for solo ranged MC's the high per or high str builds ?! and you will quickly get yr answer on the topic of what is the better build...heck the amount of builds both ranged&melee that don't have 6per is close to non existent but the amount of builds that have 4 or 5str is staggering.

[rock]

I think I will switch MC to shotties and Jed to melee, if only for weapon variety. While not being the main tank, my Con 8 MC should be able to take enough punishment with the shield gadget and armor to be an off-tank. Shotgun will give the range without having to physically run everywhere. Problem is the implant changes will mean both MC and Jed will have fewer implants to take, so it really becomes a question of specializing as much as possible.

Probably will keep the current spread. Faythe ticks lockpick, electronics, and computer. Jed does biotech. I could also offload biotech to MC but it doesn't seem that important because Jed's only other thing to tick off is armor and I feel getting shot a lot will work just as well.

[MateSalsa]

@graff I specifically referred to Jed with the exo-implant and controlled b not in general. Exo-implant also has the +6 armor chip which is needed to use the heavy energy vest with not much penalty. Heavy energy vest is a gamechanger against creepers/floaters.
For Jed specifically I would add exospine no matter what.
You're right it is stupid to add that much strenght to a ranged MC, but Jed has already 7 so it is a cheap investment for him.
Btw I added controlled burst to him just out of curiosity, and I really like it. Attacking a creaper with 10 ap burst, then 5 ap doubleshoot and creeper looses 2/3rd of hp then cannot regenerate due to heavy energy vest. Sorry it's just too fun.

@OP if you give skill monkey feat to Faythe she has bonus on biotech in addition there are 2 biotech checjs with stealth. If you don't tag it though you can reach max 8 out of it.

[grraf]

Originally posted by rock:

I think I will switch MC to shotties and Jed to melee, if only for weapon variety. While not being the main tank, my Con 8 MC should be able to take enough punishment with the shield gadget and armor to be an off-tank. Shotgun will give the range without having to physically run everywhere. Problem is the implant changes will mean both MC and Jed will have fewer implants to take, so it really becomes a question of specializing as much as possible.

Probably will keep the current spread. Faythe ticks lockpick, electronics, and computer. Jed does biotech. I could also offload biotech to MC but it doesn't seem that important because Jed's only other thing to tick off is armor and I feel getting shot a lot will work just as well.

Yeah the con implant changes will be somewhat inconvenient but more then manageable for the most part:

1)For a melee Jed you can have 3+1(bionic) so by default dermal+heart+eye(or spine) and the likely implant that you would drop would be the motor cortex as both the eye&spine contribute too much to acc&crit&dmg&penetration to just ditch on a whim, while one or two more AP's won't do much to change the routine of a two aimed hits to the limbs/weak point per turn.

2)For a party setting an MC with gifted that is going ranged likely 8con is the ideal choice to bag 4+1 implants likely these: dermal+cortex+subliminal+eye+heart(or spine) and he will likely drop the data jack(bridge office chip can go to Faythe to speed up her leveling while the neural +10 chip is nice its by no means all that great or a must have) and depending on what is more important resilience(heart +5hp&regen of stats&hp during combat) or some extra dps(more accurate bursts&double shots if you prefer using those more then aimed arms/legs/head(personally i think using the aimed shots to debuff everyone you cant kill is more important then gambling to see if you can put smb down via bursts&doubles)
As for the exact stat allocation id say this is what you want to start with:
4str -> you can still get armored warfare if you do decide to get&OC the spine
8con -> 4 implants(going any more or less isn't doing you all that much good)
8(10)dex ->if you value combat prowess&stealth then a 10 will come in very handy otherwise drop the extra points into cha
6(8)int ->if getting skill monkey&educated for extra tags is smth you want&need then having an 8 is the way to go otherwise a 6 will get you the bare bones combat tags you need.
6per -> you will OC the eye so the best ranged feats will be yours for the taking once you have a chat with monk Eli(prior to that you got plenty of other feats to invest into that you want to have anyway)
6(9)cha -> ideally you would go with just 6 as Jed can take sarge and the only notable distinction between that and Captain is +4acc and an extra companion that is ideally an addition from the habitat(those guys are way to strong to ignore if an optimal combat ready full party is your goal) and at said point you grab the personal magnetism feat... nothing prior to that point is smth a 3 man crew can't handle(heck folks pull off full combat runs with just solos and duos ffs)

Regarding what other usefull companions you may decide to get past mid game id recommend any of the faction enforcers(theyr beasts in combat nobody can even come close to matching them)
BTW as personal choice surprisingly enough i reserve the right to advocate for Knurl .. yes I know hes not at the cutting edge in any particular field but hes implant&feat selection is impeccable combat wise and hes overall resilience is remarkable to say the least:
https://imgur.com/LWAL9mj.png <-- and has eye+motor+dermal implants

[rock]

Originally posted by HuggyBear:

SMGs are super viable

Tried that build in the demo, really cool. Must be absolutely broken in the end game.