How to overcome -1 disposition?

[epepep]

I know that characters with -1 disposition (4 cha) will fail certain dialogues even if their speech skill levels are sufficient

I also know that the same characters, if they overshoot the skill requirements by 1 level for certain dialogue options in the same encounter, can likely pass the encounter. Is there a way to find out which dialogues require all speech checks to be overshot to pass, and which dialogues require only certain speech checks to be overshot? Is it a guarantee for all dialogues that overshooting by 1 for all speech checks will pass?

Are there other ways in which we can negate -1 disposition in dialogues?

[HuggyBear]

That's a great question, the disposition system feels a bit opaque right now compared to other systems like combat, if we could see the numerical effect of our decisions that would go a long way to being able to approach speech challenges as tactical problems. That being said, I'm not sure if the devs want us doing that :)

Also shoutout to epepe for his "Persuade Mercy with CHA 4 and don't lose any combat XP" pathing, truly a work of art!

[skaudus]

It's difficult to tell now, both because the lack of transparency, as well as the fact that the system has a lot of variables stacked on.

Some options even have an innate disposition value, irrespective of the check (e.g. being rude). Sometimes you get bonuses from previous events (Dumont being dead for Nazar). Other times, dialogue options branch out to completely different paths with unique checks/results.

If the system were less complicated we could probably reverse engineer its inner workings. This way, until the devs make it more transparent, we can't tell.

[epepep]

Originally posted by HuggyBear:

Also shoutout to epepe for his "Persuade Mercy with CHA 4 and don't lose any combat XP" pathing, truly a work of art!

You're too kind :)
Btw it is also possible to persuade mercy with CHA 4, do all combats and also not take speech token, but you need both the skill xp feat and the zen stim mutation

Originally posted by skaudus:

Sometimes you get bonuses from previous events (Dumont being dead for Nazar).

Is this always a separate dialogue option without a speech check? Or it can be hidden also? I seem to recall the options for Nazar and Mother

[skaudus]

I think it's both. For instance, the first [Streetwise 2] option with Mercy gives negative disposition if you have exactly 2 Streetwise.

I'm not sure about positive bonuses simply because it's hard to tell.

[HuggyBear]

Originally posted by epepep:

You're too kind :)
Btw it is also possible to persuade mercy with CHA 4, do all combats and also not take speech token, but you need both the skill xp feat and the zen stim mutation

Mind blown!

Originally posted by skaudus:

Sometimes you get bonuses from previous events (Dumont being dead for Nazar).

Originally posted by epepep:

Is this always a separate dialogue option without a speech check? Or it can be hidden also? I seem to recall the options for Nazar and Mother

From what I recall it's always an explicit speech check, I don't recall seeing anything that modifies initial disposition outside of one very specific instance where you can bring the mercenaries hired from Manny to the warehouse, doing so gives you disposition bonus, exact quantity unknown.

I'll try to keep my eyes peeling for any other instances like that.

[skaudus]

IIRC telling Mother that Mercy is in charge, or Nazar that Jonas is in charge, both give disposition bonuses while not being actual skill checks.

[Tsubutai]

The devs are considering changing the Squad Leader implant to give +1 disposition instead of +1 companion, so that would be the easiest way of overcoming the penalty if/when that change is made.

Pit/Factory choices affect Shuttle Bay dialogue battles in a lot of different ways, IIRC:

For Mother, the second difficulty 5 speech check is replaced with a disposition-boosting option with no check if Mercy controls the Pit.

For Nazar, one difficulty 5 check is replaced with a no-check disposition-boosting option if Stanton controls the Factory, and a second no-check disposition-boosting option is available if Jonas controls the Pit

For Moses, the difficulty 7 check to persuade him to ally with the Protectors is reduced to difficulty 5 if Braxton controls the Pit, and the difficulty 7 check to persuade him to ally with Jonas is reduced to 5 if Stanton controls the Factory.

[HuggyBear]

Originally posted by skaudus:

IIRC telling Mother that Mercy is in charge, or Nazar that Jonas is in charge, both give disposition bonuses while not being actual skill checks.

You are correct! I should have said, they are always dialog actions instead of being initial passive disposition bonuses, minus that one special case. And the Con check to be Isiaih's drinking buddy.

[Elhoim]

Something to keep in mind is that there's a bit of experimentation in several dialogues. We are starting to show a bit more of the system, as you can see in some chats in the Habitat alpha (showing starting disposition bonus) and we are looking into showing more of the info plus creating different rules and situations.

[HuggyBear]

Originally posted by Elhoim:

Something to keep in mind is that there's a bit of experimentation in several dialogues. We are starting to show a bit more of the system, as you can see in some chats in the Habitat alpha (showing starting disposition bonus) and we are looking into showing more of the info plus creating different rules and situations.

As a mechanics wonk I would love to hear some more about the mechanics you're testing if they're not immediately visible like initial disposition is.