Opinion: No camera rotation is the fatal big mistake of this game

[vinculus]

The expectation of being able to rotate the camera 360 degrees is so ingrained in a player like myself after playing virtually every modern turn-based "isometric" RPG out there.
As far as I can remember, only Hare-brained Schemes' Shadowrun-series shares this mistake.

It makes navigation super-hard in basically every location I have visited so far - The various Pit districts, The Armory, Mission Control, etc. The passages are narrow, the sight is obscured.

A lot of the time it's "just" a matter of navigation and getting used to it, but there's also the times where it has en effect on tactics. Take for example the part where you can choose to sneak past the scavs and get into the elevator on the first floor of The Armory. You are supposed to sneak past them using a path that is obscured by whatever-it-was. It's possible to figure out what's what, but apparently not without praying for having remembered to quicksave just before. My muscle memory while assessing the situation once I'd started sneaking immediately reached for the Q-key to rotate the camera. Instead this somehow broke out of sneak mode, and had me immediately killed, since the non-violence standard build + evans would get their asses kicked even by an inanimate sack of potatoes.

This is probably the single daminging and non-sensical design decision that will have me end up dismissing the game as unplayable. Reluctantly at that, since there seems to be so much goodness in here otherwise.

Let me rotate the camera.
Let me rotate the camera.
Let me rotate the camera.
Let me rotate the camera.
LET ME ROTATE THE CAMERA.

[khargal]

Originally posted by Vince:

There was a noticeable drop of interest compared to AoD, which was constantly discussed on 5-6 Russian forums (while in EA not after release). Colony Ship barely gets any traction there for some reason. Not complaining but sharing an observation.

I know plenty of people who are ready to but Colony ship, but only as a finished product. Too many botched expectations nowadays, like Encased. This may be part of an issue

[okka2020]

Imo camera rotation is not so important, didn't have any issues with that.

[Vince]

The fears of buying an EA game are understandable, regardless of the previous games.

[Pink Eye]

I actually have a friend on here who didn't want to buy Colony Ship precisely because it was on Early Access. I ended up pressuring him though with the POWER of PERSUASION - read I just begged him to support Iron Tower LMAO.

But yeah. There are a couple of people I've talked to about this game who are waiting on full release.

[vergil12345678]

Originally posted by Vince:

Yeah, Oscar does a great job creating visuals with very limited resources, but he's overloaded. So either we get a level designer who'd handle the basics or get more 3D artists (which will also remove some of the asset pressure from Oscar). Both options fall under 'easier said than done' category.

First, it's money we don't always have (the last two years before EA were pretty hard, whatever money we earned from AoD and DR went to the contractors, leaving very little for the 'core team'), second, hiring a new contractor doesn't always solve all your problems.

Here's an example. So 2 month ago we got a third 3D artist (we're fortunate to have two good artists). The quality is good (8/10), the prices are good (one artist quoted 3k for a weapon similar to what we have, i.e. not some first-person shooter super detailed gun; another artist wanted 12k for an armor set), but not a single asset could be used as delivered. There were numerous issues that would take a long time to solve, so overall it was more distracting than helpful.

Holy cow! "learn to code" is really outdated, it seems now it is time "learn to draw"

[arhin]

Originally posted by kirill-busidow:

Not sure if you know this, so i will tell: Russian players, we cant buy games in Steam.
Which affects developers income sadly. Hopefully not too much so some projects/sequels wont get canceled.

There IS a method with QIWI / tenge. I have not buy any game with it, but I shall probably use it for new Plague Tale . I would use it for Colony Ship if I had not it already.

Originally posted by HuggyBear:

That sucks, do alternative platforms like GOG offer other payment options that work or is everything disabled currently?

As far as I know, Epic store works (or worked some time ago, at least).

I am ok with fixed camera, absence of map is a more significant issue for me. I liked maps in AoD. Those "Извечно" on Maadoran map made me shriver

[LordBlade]

Originally posted by vinculus:

As far as I can remember, only Hare-brained Schemes' Shadowrun-series shares this mistake.

Other than the Shadowrun games...
Baldur's Gate series
Planescape: Torment
Disco Elysium
Fallout classics
Tyranny
Van Helsing
Underrail
Countless others...

Rotation is absolutely not needed.

[vinculus]

Originally posted by LordBlade:

Baldur's Gate series
Planescape: Torment
Fallout classics

None of these are what I would call "modern", being over 20 years old. Nor do they use 3D engines. Except for Baldurs Gate 3, of course, where you can also... rotate the camera.

Disco Elysium

Not quite the same genre, is it? The lack of anything tactical in the game together with plenty of room to navigate. No need for camera rotation. Fantastic game, nonetheless!

Tyranny
Van Helsing

I have no idea what those are, which is probably why they didn't fit into "as far as I can remember".
Looking at the screenshots I googled, Tyranny seems to take place in a lot of open spaces, which I guess makes camera rotation less important. And yes, I know, I shouldn't judge games based on screenshots. But, eh, fanasy-schmantasy. ;)

Underrail

Well, this is intentionally old-school and the level graphics are _very_ tile-based, so you can pretty much always tell what's going on. Even though it's fairly recent, I wouldn't call it "modern".

Countless others...

Which ones? From what remains of your list, there's 1 or possibly 2 that fits the bill.

Rotation is absolutely not needed.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

[arhin]

Originally posted by vinculus:

Which ones? From what remains of your list, there's 1 or possibly 2 that fits the bill.

For example, Pillars of Eternity I & II, Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

[LordBlade]

Originally posted by arhin:

For example, Pillars of Eternity I & II, Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

It's clear they don't care how many examples are given. They're just posting to troll at this point.

[vinculus]

Originally posted by LordBlade:

Originally posted by arhin:

For example, Pillars of Eternity I & II, Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

It's clear they don't care how many examples are given. They're just posting to troll at this point.

Who, me? Not trolling. I explicitly asked for examples. Purely out of interest since I couldn't come up with any myself. Not for the sake of the discussion, which has kind of moved past that. What are you trying to contribute, except negativity?