Mutations and theyr effects, which one do you like the most ?!

[grraf]

So Myriam bless her little soul can make a nice little evolution booster , in fact you get 3 choices depending on what you would like her to base it on.... so we have:

Regen based: 3rd tier gives +1regen +5hp +1DR (my personal favorite as regen steams are easy to hoard and then go nuts on them during combat mop up phase(2x per battle isn't hard to do)
Overall this heavily boosts the longevity of yr MC allowing him to tank a lot of extra dmg

Berserk based: 3rd tier gives +5reaction&crit +1AP (not exactly great as these puppies are in high demand often times getting used by the entire party not just yr selfish MC)
This one is hard to get and gives rather little and takes some rather specialized builds&weapons choice and ties you down to those(see that shiny new weapon you just got, can't use it cause its to AP intensive for n aimed/bursts a turn... soo its a hard pass as far as i'm concerned)

Zen based: 3rd tier gives +5neural resist +? +? soo smb much more knowledgeable then myself please feel free to pitch in your opinion...first glance a rather scarce resorce and likely going to take a while to develop as wasting them against non neural attackers seem down right retarded.
Overall seems like a very bad choice(unless later on it starts raining disruptor grenades and you ain't got a single high dmg&initiative sniper in yr party capable to put down the owner before he gets to react.

So what do the rest of the settlers council thinks is the best way to mutate forward ?!

[AndreGAS]

ZEN 3 gives you +5 neural +25% exp boost for all skills

As for solo my favourite depends:

for high DEX + Fast Draw definitely +1 AP because I want as much dps as I can
for others definitely +1 to regen. For tanking CON 10 Master Race! the choise is obvious
ZEN mutagen I think suits for non-solo skill monkey only

[grraf]

Yeah zen is rather lame and pointless as it is and could use a rework to have it give smth like +5neural +1SP(perhaps on all non tagged) +1Feat...

[Patroklos]

Publicado originalmente por AndreGAS:

ZEN 3 gives you +5 neural +25% exp boost for all skills

As for solo my favourite depends:

for high DEX + Fast Draw definitely +1 AP because I want as much dps as I can
for others definitely +1 to regen. For tanking CON 10 Master Race! the choise is obvious
ZEN mutagen I think suits for non-solo skill monkey only

It's 10 NR, not 5.

I love the zen one for my non-combat party of 4. It also only takes 10 total stims.

[Patroklos]

Publicado originalmente por grraf:

Yeah zen is rather lame and pointless as it is and could use a rework to have it give smth like +5neural +1SP(perhaps on all non tagged) +1Feat...

This would be awful. Leave me the only feat I've seen I really like. Seriously. It's the best feat for my character after mastermind. Probably better than captain. 25% LP is great.

[grraf]

Publicado originalmente por Patroklos:

Publicado originalmente por grraf:

Yeah zen is rather lame and pointless as it is and could use a rework to have it give smth like +5neural +1SP(perhaps on all non tagged) +1Feat...

This would be awful. Leave me the only feat I've seen I really like. Seriously. It's the best feat for my character after mastermind. Probably better than captain. 25% LP is great.

If you dissect the +25% tho its actually bad because:
1)Does nothing for tagged skills these increase plenty fast by themselves both the civic and especially the combat ones
2)Its meh on the non tagged skills as while you will likely keep up with combat skills without an issue the civic ones will slowly but surely slip into an obsolete state but no sooner then mid game by witch point all you can do is grunt and say 'guess skill x needs to actually be tagged by some crew member eh '

[Tsubutai]

AP uber alles for most of my builds, so berserk for me.

[Sequester Grundleplith MD]

Publicado originalmente por grraf:

Publicado originalmente por Patroklos:

This would be awful. Leave me the only feat I've seen I really like. Seriously. It's the best feat for my character after mastermind. Probably better than captain. 25% LP is great.

If you dissect the +25% tho its actually bad because:
1)Does nothing for tagged skills these increase plenty fast by themselves both the civic and especially the combat ones
2)Its meh on the non tagged skills as while you will likely keep up with combat skills without an issue the civic ones will slowly but surely slip into an obsolete state but no sooner then mid game by witch point all you can do is grunt and say 'guess skill x needs to actually be tagged by some crew member eh '

Yeah, just my opinion, but I think there is something slightly off with noncombat skill progression right now.
For current MC, I have an untagged lvl4 in electronics, but at something like 20xp per interaction, I need another 13 interactions to level up to 5, which seems unlikely to happen, as interactions gradually increase in difficulty, so I will soon run into too many 5s to get any more xp.

I get that the point is "you cant do everything in one game" but computers, lockpick & electronic often all interact with each other, just as persuade, streetwise & impersonate all interact (and, importantly, joint level) in dialogue interactions: you need lockpick x AND computers y AND electronics z to enter this or that area.

Meanwhile, while having int10+educated feat gives you the 5 tags, the 50% xp gain is essentially all combat improvement, as you only gain 50%xp on quest reward xp, and at level ups you only can add feats, which are almost all combat improvements.

So, it feels like if you have higher int (8-10 maybe), even nontagged, noncombat skills should see some xp reward increase per use

[Patroklos]

Publicado originalmente por grraf:

Publicado originalmente por Patroklos:

This would be awful. Leave me the only feat I've seen I really like. Seriously. It's the best feat for my character after mastermind. Probably better than captain. 25% LP is great.

If you dissect the +25% tho its actually bad because:
1)Does nothing for tagged skills these increase plenty fast by themselves both the civic and especially the combat ones
2)Its meh on the non tagged skills as while you will likely keep up with combat skills without an issue the civic ones will slowly but surely slip into an obsolete state but no sooner then mid game by witch point all you can do is grunt and say 'guess skill x needs to actually be tagged by some crew member eh '

You seem to be under the clearly erroneous impression that combat is part of my build considerations. It is not. This feat has very much changed how I'm thinking about building my character because it makes the idea of untagged biotech more interesting to me on my non-combat, do everything skill based build. The other two feats are combat only, and therefore provide nothing of value.

Here's my counter point:
Anything that improves a combat build is bad. If you can't win combat without combat feats, you're just not a good enough tactician.

See how it complete trivializes what you like about the game and isn't fun to hear?

[Pink Eye]

yeah. im a causal bby for using feats :)

[Patroklos]

Publicado originalmente por Pink Eye:

yeah. im a causal bby for using feats :)

You think the all 4's combat challenge was tough. How about a no feat run.

[Pink Eye]

no.nevah. its impossible! im a bad player who needs crutches liek feats :P

[Patroklos]

Publicado originalmente por Pink Eye:

no.nevah. its impossible! im a bad player who needs crutches liek feats :P

You lack the will of a warrior. Therefore, the battle is already over.

[grraf]

Patroklos you got me there if combat isn't on the table then yeah nothing but the Zen mutation makes any sense... but you forgot about needing to KILL thus fight the froggies ya forked tongued monster

While on the biotech argument you have all ready lost the bet there pal as my latest build with no tags on it already proved i can get all but dermal implant safely extracted(in fact i got 3 hearts and about as many exoskelies too, and 4motor cortex) but since i can get one in the basement' of the ruins i'm pretty much covered there(even if i wasn't i can get regen mutation and get a similar effect anyways or stack the 2 together... what ever floats my boat really)

So since my little 8int hybrid handles ALL non combat party checks by himself with no assist or Zen mutation what can i possibly gain via zen ?! as the only thing that's below average with him is hes persuasion(we do our own dirty work round these parts, not expect others to clean our mess after all) heck that would be a non issue as well if i wanted via picking up educated and using tokens on it to pick up the slack as well as mix in my naturally average streetwise to help out.

So while zen-ing out may seem like a cool idea its about as usefull as zoning out the gun fire around you and pretend it just started raining

[Patroklos]

The psyker fights are really easy. I said I didn't consider combat for my build, not that I won't do it. And just because you can get most stuff now while earning a quarter the LP doesn't mean you can keep pace with biotech. That skill is more than implants and medpacks, it's also skill checks in a couple places. There will be higher checks for things that aren't implants, and that's what I care about. I have a feeling untagged will top out at 6, maybe 7. There will probably be some dialog checks that won't make.

Please stop telling me I'm wrong about things when you don't understand how I'm playing.

Your take is if you can make the checks, why take zen? My take is if I can beat the fights, why take Regen or aggro?

[grraf]

''You seem to be under the clearly erroneous impression that combat is part of my build considerations ... ''
Patroklos you said it that way not I, so you can't really blame yr lack of either proper phrasing or ambiguous wording on smb else.

To be honest you can only interpret that phraseing as: 'I don't do combat so yr logic doesn't apply ' OR if you put it in a non literal sense to mean the opposite as: 'combat is cake for me'.

To this we add yr track record of pacifist runs and ya really got no reason to get cranky about failing to get yr point across on the first try.

I'm not a native english speaker myself so yeah getting my own point across on occasion also gets 'lost in translation'