how to harvest implants

[Teber]

?

[Mechalibur]

Implants can only be extracted from specific bodies. You just interact with them like any other object and if you have enough biotech, the implant is extracted.

[Elhoim]

We will be doing a pass on the system later, so you can extract them from enemies as well.

[Pink Eye]

How would you balance that though? If you can extract implants from enemies. Then sell them. You'd make a lot of monies. Body count from combat run will be high.

[Tsubutai]

Originally posted by Elhoim:

We will be doing a pass on the system later, so you can extract them from enemies as well.

That seems like it might be simultaneously excessive since a character with biotech tagged would end up swimming in surplus implants and unreasonably punitive since a character without biotech tagged would end up missing out on the perception implant from the final chapter 1 arena fight.

[skaudus]

Per Michela's rummaging through the data files a couple of months back:

Originally posted by Michela:

There are actually several NPCs with implants, even if you can only extract a few of them.

Manfred: Subdermal Armor
Gideon: Bionic Eye
Morgan: Subdermal Armor
Solomon Clayton: Bionic Eye
Samuel: Bionic Eye
Jonas' Doorman: Subdermal Armor
Guard behind Jonas (Tommy Gun and Scavenger Goggles): Bionic Eye
Other guard in Jonas' office (Tommy Gun and Smart Glasses): Motor Cortex
Braxton: Neural Uplink, Motor Cortex, Squad Leader
Braxton's Guard with the Truncheon: Exo-Spine
Mercy: Motor Cortex
Faythe: Neural Uplink
Jed: Subdermal Armor
Smiles: Bionic Eye, Motor Cortex
Bartholomew: Subdermal Armor
Detroit Thug with the M16: Bionic Eye

For a murderhobo:

Manfred x1
Gideon x1
Morgan x1
Mercy x1
Jed x1
Bartholomew x1
Bartholomew's guard x1

and EITHER

Samuel x1
Jonas' guard x3

OR

Braxton x3
Braxton's guard x1


Which, minus MC, would net us an extra 11 implants, assuming you don't kill Smiles or Faythe (you monster). If you side with Mercy you get 13!

However, if you ask questions and then shoot, you miss out on Gideon, Morgan, Mercy, Jed, Bart + guard, and potentially both Jonas and Braxton's fights. Basically you only get Manfred's subdermal armour, and even that requires some tough combat (or will in the future).

So basically Biotech will be a non-issue for a murderhobo as far as leveling is concerned. You'll also potentially use some of the implants on companions if not selling them. I don't think that's that much of a balance issue. Balancing around murderhobos isn't that useful anyway, and they're swimming in cash already.

If you're not killing everyone you meet, you won't get that many extra implants.

[skaudus]

Originally posted by Tsubutai:

Originally posted by Elhoim:

We will be doing a pass on the system later, so you can extract them from enemies as well.

That seems like it might be simultaneously excessive since a character with biotech tagged would end up swimming in surplus implants and unreasonably punitive since a character without biotech tagged would end up missing out on the perception implant from the final chapter 1 arena fight.

You can already easily get to [Biotech 4] untagged before the Factory. Another point is that it's unclear if we'll be able to return to some corpses after the fact, or how high the requirements will be from extracting implants from fresh bodies. As per my analysis above, you're only swimming in implants if murderhoboing, which in my opinion shouldn't be the focus of balancing unless it's very, very broken.

An implant is worth about as much as a mid-grade pipe weapon such as an Old Stanley or a Pipe Dream. If we look at it this way it really isn't that much money.

[Elhoim]

This is all subject to change, of course:

- We'll probably make a few more "tiers" of implants.
- Lower tier will be more common and will be cheaper.
- Extracting them will require different skill levels, so you might break a few, but since they are more common they won't be a huge loss.

The main thing is the bodies not being permanent, so it would be kinda like if we implemented the chests in a way that you can only open them the first time you enter the room they are in, if you leave you can't never open them. Which would definitely be annoying. For example, I, as a player, would find it quite infuriating if I have 3 biotech, almost 4, end combat, the implant needing 4, I leave and the body is gone, which is something we need to remove when fights happen in the pit, like in the arena for example, plus it would be annoying to track where each enemy with an implant you didn't remove is.

So one option is to go with a tiered result system. If you have the skill, you remove it and get the implant. If you have a few points under, you get it but needs to be properly detached (kinda like the heads from Sarah's quest). You can then use biotech on them later, or pay for proper extraction (should be expensive). And if it's very low, you can't remove it (maybe the option for forceful extraction and selling for scrap). Basically, if you are almost there, I'd like to give the player an opportunity to level up and be able to pass the check, just like we do with locks. Plus it gives a nice mini-goal. Or a side idea: You extract it but damage it a bit, but you can later use electronics and biotech to repair.

In any case, there's a lot to consider here, in order to make it a system that doesn't annoy the player, plus doesn't send the economy to hell.

[Pink Eye]

Sounds fine to me. I imagine testing will take a bit until you find a good equilibrium for economy.

[skaudus]

Woah, this is pretty big news! Implants are one of my favourite elements in the game mechanics-wise, and I'm glad they're getting more love.

I do like the tiered result system in principle. Will it be implemented as a dialogue window after each combat, or will it be as a result of interacting with the bodies themselves?

I'm thinking the former would be easier to code, but might get tedious for the player.

[Elhoim]

Originally posted by skaudus:

Woah, this is pretty big news! Implants are one of my favourite elements in the game mechanics-wise, and I'm glad they're getting more love.

I do like the tiered result system in principle. Will it be implemented as a dialogue window after each combat, or will it be as a result of interacting with the bodies themselves?

The idea is for them to be in the loot screen in a separate section.

[Tsubutai]

Originally posted by Elhoim:

This is all subject to change, of course:

- We'll probably make a few more "tiers" of implants.
- Lower tier will be more common and will be cheaper.
- Extracting them will require different skill levels, so you might break a few, but since they are more common they won't be a huge loss.

Would this mean being able to unplug and swap your own implants as well, or would you keep the current approach where implants are permanent? It'd kind of suck if (without foreknowledge) you plugged in the +1 Implant Of Mediocrity early on only to be locked out of the +10 Implant Of Awesomeness And Shooting Thunderbolts From Your Eyes later on as a result. The existing approach of being able to eventually upgrade your implants seems like it might be a better fit and require less meta-knowledge.

[skaudus]

The current system, that was available in the combat beta, basically had the base level of implants, which is what we have now, as well as two distinct, mutually exclusive upgrades.

Basically, if we take the Bionic Eye:

Tier 1 - +1 PER
Tier 2a - (+ snap shot), (+ reaction), aimed penalty
Tier 2b - (+ aimed), (+ crit), only aimed attacks

From what Oscar has said, they're probably planning more direct upgrades as opposed to, or in addition to sidegrades. I'm excited about anything!

[Elhoim]

Originally posted by Tsubutai:

Would this mean being able to unplug and swap your own implants as well, or would you keep the current approach where implants are permanent? It'd kind of suck if (without foreknowledge) you plugged in the +1 Implant Of Mediocrity early on only to be locked out of the +10 Implant Of Awesomeness And Shooting Thunderbolts From Your Eyes later on as a result. The existing approach of being able to eventually upgrade your implants seems like it might be a better fit and require less meta-knowledge.

As said in the game, if you take your eyes out to place an eye implant, you can't put them back in. So you can't remove your eye implant to place a datajack, for example, but you are able to replace the eye implant with a better version.

[Pink Eye]

If I find another upgrade eye implant, but am wearing one of the upgraded tiers. Can I switch them out?

[Elhoim]

Originally posted by Pink Eye:

If I find another upgrade eye implant, but am wearing one of the upgraded tiers. Can I switch them out?

Yeah, the idea is to make a dedicated implants screen, with a GUI in which you can switch them around easily (instead of the dialogue we are using now).