Fixing the progression grind

[Malidictus]

Technical issues aside, I think the game's most serious, fundamental flaw is that it's far, FAR too grindy. It's not too bad for the first 10 levels or so, but it starts to get really old at around level 15 when the XP requirements get larger and new unlocks start to show up only every 5 levels. This wouldn't be so bad if actually playing the game rewarded meaningful progression, but it really doesn't. In fact, the best way to progress is to play in a really dull, uninspired, boring way because of how XP is awarded.

From what I can tell, you earn 1 XP every time you mount or unmount a part from a car, 100 XP for turning in a completed job and nothing for anything else. As such, the best way to level up is to be exceptionally mercenary. Only ever take simple jobs - exhaust jobs if available since those tend to have 1-3 pieces to repair and they're both obvious and easily accessible. I can do a rear exhaust replacement in about 20 seconds and gain 102 XP. By contrast, grabbing a job which requires me to diagnose faults in the engine, troubleshoot the suspension and repair the body can take me half an hour and grant me not really too much more than ~200 XP. If all I wanted to do was level up - which I do, because I want the paint booth - then why wouldn't I take the fastest, most boring jobs every single time?

I'm probably not the first person to propose this, but here's how I would handle XP progression:

For customer vehicles:

• +0 XP for mounting or unmounting an individual part
  
• +5 XP for identifying a fault (where no list is provided)
  
• +10 XP for fixing a fault, granted at successful job completion
  
• +100 for finishing a job, granted at successful job completion

Rewarding players for completing each necessary part of a job encourages them to take larger, more complex jobs with unknown faults. The more difficult the job, the faster players progress. Not rewarding the player for randomly fidgeting with the car encourages them to stick to just what's at fault instead of just disassembling everything and hope for the best.

For player-owned cars:

• +1 XP for mounting or unmounting an individual non-bolted part, once per part per car.
  
• +1 XP for screwing or unscrewing a single bolt on a bolted part, once per part per car.
  
• +10 XP per body part sprayed in a factory colour, once per part per spray
  
• +10 XP per body part sprayed in a non-factory colour, once per part per spray
  
• +100 XP for selling a car
  
• When selling a car, +1 XP for every $100 that the sale price exceeds the original purchase price

Rewarding the player for working on their car is crucial, but care must be taken that this isn't gameable. Players need to be encouraged to take on complex restoration project without also encouraging them to constantly bolt and unbolt a wheel on the same car. Players must also be encouraged to work smart - buy low, sell high, turn a profit. As such, giving players increasing rewards the more net revenue they turn is crucial.

Overall, my goal with both proposals is to reward players for actually playing the game, without making them feel forced into meta-gaming, exploiting and grinding. All the bugfixes will be for naught if the game itself isn't fun to play.

[EvolGrinZ]

I don't mind the grind. I just dislike the fact that the torch and interior detailing unlocks at lvl 30 as I would really like to fully restore some of the cars I bought from barn finds.

[Gromit]

A career mode would have been great in this game, but unfortunately I just doubt RedDot has the capability to pull it off properly. Tycoon elements need balancing and testing. RedDot hardly has a good track record with testing, and when it comes to balancing... kneejerk changes to make 50k barnfinds and a reluctance to change it says it all.

From what I've seen so far, they have absolutely no concept for how a progression and economy system would work in this game. The features are already there in the game to give this a real headstart and yet they've wasted every aspect. Even the trailer shows an auction based system for aquiring and selling cars, do we have that here? Nope, all we have is generic location based vehicles.

All RedDot seem to understand is grind. To RedDot, grind = progression. I have no confidence in them at all when it comes to this aspect of the game.

I know that sounds really negative but I just don't see any evidence they can do this any justice. I think all we can really hope for is them reducing the grind by increasing the amount of XP you get later on in your career, that's about it. They're not even keen on giving us XP for selling restored cars lol.

[Gromit]

Other than this game lol?

[Malidictus]

EvolGrinZ eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't mind the grind. I just dislike the fact that the torch and interior detailing unlocks at lvl 30 as I would really like to fully restore some of the cars I bought from barn finds.

That's probably the biggest problem. You don't get the ability to restore cars until near the end of the progression system. Considering this game was marketed on Barn Finds and Junkyard Finds, it just seems like hiding the selling point behind so much grind is counter-productive.

Not to mention that the grind itself isn't very productive, either. Upgrading the garage and gaining extra tools really is fun, but the minutiae just isn't. Yay, 5% discount on parts in the store. That completely doesn't change the way the game plays. And now we even have walking speed upgrades. Seriously...

Overall, I stand by my original suggestion - job XP should scale to the total complexity of a job, nit just the number of task wrappers. Players should be rewarded for doing hard, complicated work and not just encouraged to grab the simplest and easiest tasks for maximum XP/min.

[EvolGrinZ]

I see walking speed upgrade being useful getting around the junkyard, but other than that, not really see a use for it either.
And yeah, I often just take the easy jobs, becuase they are more exp effective. While the big jobs are the most fun to do.
Instead of having job exp, just getting exp per broken part replaced would be much more ideal.

But then again. after you maxed out everything, there isn't really any use for exp anymore.

[MixMasterMaple]

I wish they would add an expert mode like they did in cms2015 to speed up progression for more experienced players. I feel cms2015's progression was spot on. I also wish you could just purchase the modules of the garage with money earned like in cms2015 as well instead of waiting for a magical garage fairy to come by and make a paint booth appear out of thin air when they deem you a worthy mechanic. Im at lv20 right now with 80k and 4 of my own cars and I feel like I really have nothing to invest it in because I cant even fully restore my own cars yet.

[Malidictus]

I still think a good middle-ground solution is to let players outsource jobs they can't do yet. You need to repair a body? Send it out to be welded and cleaned, pay lots of money to do it and risk the body coming back not 100% anyway. Need to paint a car? Send it out to be painted, risk it coming back with not all the body parts painted quite the same colour, or maybe not painted quite the same shade as you requested. It would still give players incentive to grind out XP for garage upgrades, but it wouldn't barr players from what I consider to be the best part of the game until we sink 40 hours into it.

[Dr. Universe]

Expanding garage, getting dyno, lifts, the ability to repair body etc should be unlocked with just money (huge amount for the lasts). Experience should be for the rest of perks. The progression would be better, we would get a necessary money sink and we won't be forced to grind to finally completely repair vehicle

[FrozeUp]

All games are grindy, you have to start at the bottom to get to the top. If you don't notice a grind then you are enjoying the game.

[MSJ-06II-C]

As the above's pointed out, the problem is not the NEED to grind, rather it's HOW the grind is implemented, as in, you take short, boring jobs, rather than putting in the work and actually flipping cars which takes far longer but does not exactly give that many XP.

So, rather than being rewarded for putting in as much work as possible to level up, players are rewarded for doing as LITTLE work as possible - as others said, doing a job that requires you to change only 1 part gives you the same flat 100XP completion bonus as a job that would require you to pretty much rebuild the engine from scratch, and since mounting abd demounting parts only give 1XP each, the added XP from doing the more complex jobs in no way compensate for the added time

Also, adding to OPs first post, what I also found baffling was that repairing stuff gives you NO XP AT ALL, so, all that you really have with the repair bench is a way to safe a bit money - but especially in the later stages of the game where the grind REALLY kicks in, you are pretty much guaranteed to swim in money anyway. IMO, not only would give it the bench a purpose beyind saving a few bucks at a point were saving money is not on most players mind anymore but it would also feel more natural given that you "learn" some stuff when you repair things like a gearbox.