Erika the detective? Spoiler about the real culprit.

[Eisenerz]

I get it that the mastermind has different personas to trick the survivors in EP 1-4. Actually, Erika (as a persona) would fit in the scheme for EP 5-6 but apperently, after searching for Umineko discussions, she is treated as an different human. Why?

EDIT:
For user Battler Ushiromiya

What is Erikatrice?

>Erikatrice is my fan theory where we have 2 different Erika the same tale. There is the real human Furudo Erika- the one who fell from the pleasure boat and died in the ocean/on shore. I'll name her Human!Erika in the texts.
>The piece version of Erika we see in EP 5 and 6 is Sayo Yasuda. In other words the culprit uses Erika's name for creating a new persona, matching with a different appeareance and acting as someone else to pretend she is a stranger washed up on Rokkenjima. While she may behave like a detective, this role is actually hold by the drowned Human!Erika. I will shorten her name into Piece!Erika.
>Meta-Erika is a creation(!) and servant of Bernkastel. In this theory, she is an artifically avatar which does not mean she is like her human form and she believes her piece is human!Erika. She follows and see through piece!Erika's eyes. (that's the whole point) She'll be refered as meta!Erika.
>This theory just show an alternative thinking. I repeat, it's not something I want to add to the canon just like user Battler Ushiromya thinks again and again. Anyway, this way, it could answer some plotholes in Ep5 and 6 and also shows an other solution. The interpretation of some scene is also different, so your opinions might differ. Overall, both sides mistake Erika for a stranger . It's like Beatrice stepped down from the game master position in EP5 where she cannot know the truth of the game, meta!Erika might not know the truth of herself.
>If I mention the mastermind I use the human name, Sayo (think of Yasu if Sayo is just Shannon for you).

Number of people and humans in the official English release

>No matter which Erika is meant, she does not influence the Answer Arcs.
>I won't use the fan translation or the manga version here. But I can show one red truth that implies people=persona/personalities:
From EP4(Teaparty):"Kanon is dead. Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die. In short, he was the 9th victim."
>Piece!Erika only add one person to the total number of people on the island.
>The red statement at the end of EP6:
Erika:"Hi, pleased to meet you! I am Furudo Erika, the detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please, welcome me!!
I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!"
Battler+Beatrice:"Even if you do join u""-""That makes 17 humans.""(Note:in Japanese it is read as "17 people". Whatever.)
In my theory, meta!Erika confuses people=bodies with people=humans. I note that she refers this red truth as her self-indrotuction:
"......Now,...at the end,...I'd like to finally indrotuce myself..."
plus
"This is detective Furudo Erika's final parting line...and self-introduction!!"
Human!Erika might use the red as a quote for e.g. indroducting herself to the cousins when she does not know that Kinzo is dead and Shannon is also Kanon.
Because Kinzo is not counted to the total number of humans on the island, human!Erika legitimately adds one to human count in Ep5 and 6, making it 17 humans instead of the true number: 16.

Hints why there are 2 Erikas

>Genji lied about contacting the police and the Furudo family. Otherwise the tale becomes a broken circle where it is known in Prime that Erika was indeed on Rokkenjima. In the future she is only missing on the 4th October. It is possible for the mastermind to heard the coast guard's broadcast about a missing girl named Furudo Erika.
>Erika's birthday is 4th October.
>"Knox's 1st. It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story! A person first introduced in the 5th game cannot be named as the CULPRIT...!!" Even if a character is changed into a culprit, it's strange to use a 'detective' as a culprit in the next game.
>How Bernkastel puts her pieces on the gameboard is described in EP7 when Will asked if Lion was her piece. It's possible that the kakera where the mastermind does not follow the usual rules of Beatrice's board (like how the game masters Lambda and Battler were setting up the gameboards: a prank against a stranger) just gave birth to Erika to this world.
>North Wind and Sun: Like in EP3 when EVA became the antagonist EP 5 and 6 allows Erika to be the villian to give the impression that Beatrice is not bad. Also in these 3 games Beatrice stepped down to play an other role and is against the new the villian.
>Erika vs Beatrice in EP5 and Ep6, hinting a duality like Shannon/Kanon.
>Erika can see Sakutaro and is affected by the diplomatic immunity.
>When searching for the rose Maria should be very focused on that task. How could Erika changed her mind?
>How could Erika have knows that the puzzle mechanism
>the word "everyone" in EP6 should include Erika who was in the hallway at the time
>Erika and Kanon were not be seen together until EP6's showdown
>it was shown that just Battler and Kanon are different people

Argueing about the detective status and moves in EP5

>Please look at "What is Erikatrice" to differentiate piece!Erika, human!Erika and meta!Erika. Piece!Erika isn't the detective but human!Erika is. User Battler Ushiromya considered it as a unfair move, however, the games doesn't need a detective, the detective hints in the canon are neglecteable and Erika followed red herrings.
>It is already shown that the human player doesn't necessarily need a detective piece as the witch side can contribute all hints with red.
>Double name trick: The detective proclamation actually unknowingly targeted human!Erika. Piece!Erika can still be the culprit.
>The exception clause (the culprit may disguise as the detective) in Knox's 7th is mentioned by Lambda
>Piece!Erika has no real backup for her identity. It couldn't be objectively con us it is not confirmed.
>"Because I'm the detective." is said by Bernkastel, not by piece!Erika.
>The scenes where the detective's authority is enforced is magic (which is forbidden by Knox's 2nd), I consider them as illusions whose could be made by the game master. This is seen in the morning after

the 1st Twilight happened when Battler blocks the entry to the cousins room.
>I consider Erika's speech to Bernkastel during breakfast as magic and shows that she is not objective (Knox's 2nd).
>Her introduction and parting line in EP6 refers to the connection of the innocent human!Erika and meta!Erika as piece!Erika is the culprit in the game.
>In the canon Erika (and Bernkastel in the meta world) predicted that the murders happens around Battler (he too) in the guesthouse. However she waited in the lobby to corner Natsuhi by lying (in the court) she slipped through her observation which is denied in red. I consider this as a forbidden move (Knox's 6th+7th).
Erika instructed Eva to seal someone in the mansion. Erika went immediately left guesthouse to check all the seals isn't a good move. She made a closed room. The only time a culprit could snuck in was the time she sealed the guest house or before.
>Erika could see Shannon and Kanon together.

Solving the logic error with Erikatrice

>Since it's a logic battle, I use everything. It's a wordplay trick about 'going in', 'going out', 'leaving' and 'enter'. Check these lines out:
- "...First, this room is a closed room created from the inside. The seals on the windows are intact, so there can be no escape through there. Of course, there is no way to escape by leaving through the bathroom. ...I'll make it simple. There is no exit to escape from except for this door. However, the chain lock on this door is set. You can unset and reset it all you want, but you can only do so from the inside. Furthermore, you are free to go out through the door, but you cannot leave or escape while the chain lock is unset. You have to show that you can escape from this room with the chain lock still connected...!!"
- "From the time you entered the room to the time of the logic error, you, Battler, and Kanon were the only ones who went in or out of the guest room."
- "I acknowledge it. It refers to three people: you, Battler, and Kanon."
- "Of course. Three people--in other words, three bodies--went in or out. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. It has already been said in red that all people can only use their own names. Therefore, the names Erika, Battler, and Kanon can only be used by those people."
- "Repeat it. 'Going in or out refers to when someone crosses the boundary between the guest room and the area outside it.'" "I acknowledge it."

'Going in our out' means the person doesn't need to reset the chain lock, while 'entering' and most importantly 'escaping' or 'leaving' depends on if the chain lock was set. That's why Erika asked Battler if the chain lock was set after his existence in the guestroom was denied.

>Solution does need a dead human, since a corpse does not count as a person but to the bodies count.
>For the user Battler Ushiromiya: The solution also solves the'everyone else' problem: Erika does NOT exclude herself from this word, she only thought and talked about Kinzo. Because Battler is asked to

state of ALL pieces' location, Erika should have landed in the cousins room, which is the problem.
>Step by step solving:
-because piece!Erika is Sayo, there is no problem with escaping and sealing the survivors in the guest house, Shannon and Kanon in both rooms are just an illusion
-Sayo kills 5 victims and takes a corpse near the guest room
-Sayo (as Erika) breaks the seals, enters, repairs and sets the chain lock
-Culprit-san goes in the bathroom
-Battler unset the chain lock and hides again in the closet OR he goes outside (remember he hasn't 'left' yet)
-Sayo (as Kanon) goes out, gets the corpse, comes back and 'rescues' Battler (Battler has 'left' at this point if he's outside)
>I think the whole word play is possible Erika thought too hard about this ^^'.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Ummm..... You DO know that (Manga spoilers) only Shannon and Kanon are Yasu, right? Erika is her own person.

[Eisenerz]

(Sorry I don't have the supplementary manga and I cannot find a active discussion forum) That's the question. Let me ask the question a different way: Why shouldn't Erika be Yasu? I

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Originally posted by action90:

(Sorry I don't have the supplementary manga and I cannot find a active discussion forum) That's the question. Let me ask the question a different way: Why shouldn't Erika be Yasu? I

Because she isn't. Erika is her own person. We know this because of her bio. Namely, her missing bio. That is true of every Episode. It outright mentions that she has parents.

[Eisenerz]

Oh I think we are talking past each other and I didn't mentioned in the first post- I was unclear. I'm sorry. My theory:Furudo Erika was a real person who drowned in the sea. "Erika" was adopted by Yasu. Why do I think? Episode 5 would break the closed circle if Genji really checked and contacted the coast guard, the police and Erika's family (see the dialogue w/ Natsuhi and Genji after the family welcomed Erika). Genji is clearly lying about Erika without a real reason unless the mastermind planned ahead to use Erika..
Is there a active discussion group about Umineko that is not 4chan?

[Battler Ushiromiya]

No, that doesn't work. Erika is the detective in 5. She cannot falsify her perspective. Thus, she cannot be Yasu. Also, Genji says that he couldn't contact anyone as the phone lines were cut. Erika is her own person who washed up on the island. Aslo, there are some Discord groups I can link you to

[Eisenerz]

It is the idea that Furudo Erika is the detective (but died) but a fake Erika appeared. I do not suggest it is a canon thing. But it is even hinted by Lambdadelta. Uhm I do not know why you came up with the cut lines - I refered to the talk between Natsuhi+Genji whether Erika is a spy or not. Do I miss something? I know they were confirmed in the morning after the 1st twilight.
Yes it would be nice of you if you could share the links.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

I don't really understand how you got this idea, but it's not even close to true. The external phone lines are always cut, that's why I bring it up. And the Furudo Erika we know IS the detective, so you cannot be correct. Also, if you WERE right, Furudo Erika would always be a personality, as she always washes up on the beach. Also, there is absolutely no reason for Yasu to take on her personality.

[Eisenerz]

1)The external phone line are confirmed to be cut if the survivors try to contact the police after the discorvery of the crime. Using the phone before the crime is totally new in epsisode 5. When was it mentioned it happens on 4th October in EP1-4?
2) That's the idea of my theory: Everything that refers to Furudo Erika as the detective in red refers to the dead girl drowned in the ocean to deceive the reader.
3) Let me reword it better (+reason): Erika is created as an extra personality/role to corner Natsuhi and commit the crimes out of norm.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

The external phone line is always cut. That and the storm is why it's a cat box.

No. There is no point to that, and the story works far less. The theory doesn't work. Also, the Reds disallow it from happening, specifically in Ep 6.

[treeflower]

Action is agreeing with that the phone line is cut. His point is that Genji is lying in Ep 5 when he claims to have made a outgoing call in regards to Erika.

But i agree that the Reds in Ep 6 make it impossible for the theory to work. I can offer an example if action wants it.

[Eisenerz]

@treeflower Yes that's what I meant. Maybe Battler bring up the line where the phone lines were cut at the start of each game.
@Battler (Remind you that is a personal headcanon) Indeed it was shown that the island becomes a cat box after the storm started. But it is one of the reasons why I suspect some falsehood in Erika's death bio. We know that EP5 is without love and it can be expected that the hijacking witches produce such strange story.
@Both You're meaning the logic error? A example would be helpful, treeflower.

[treeflower]

Yeah it has to with the logic error. Since it is stated in red that 3 bodies enter battler's guest room. If erika and kannon are the same body then only 2 bodies would have entered with your theory. I dont believe there are any clues that another person other then erika, battler and kannon entered or came near the room.

edit
Ah just looking though the red's on the wiki and this backs up my notion that no one else came.

"I acknowledge it. From the time you entered the room to the time of the logic error, you, Battler, and Kanon were the only ones who went in or out of the guest room."

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Also, even suggesting that the detective's perspective in 5 is a dead person instead of the actual person we see is just crazy, I find.

[Eisenerz]

Yes these are the facts. I try to describe it in my own words how Yasu=Erika could work anyway. It's a head canon so it can be viewed as "it's pulled by the hair".
Please remember how the canon logic error solution and Kanon and Shannon works- it is required. However, some ignorance (or I would assume that Beatrice and Erika don't know it better because they are not aware of this) is required.

Prequisite: A dead body is required. Maria's body is suitable because of the body size.She will be carried to the guest room in a (plastic) bag. This statisfy the red truth "three bodies go in and out" because dead bodies don't count as a person.
1)Erika opens guest room, set chain lock, enters bathroom with sheet(!) and body. Maybe changing make-up and hair here.
Addendum: Because you already use the red truth list please take a look how going in/out and entering/leaving/escaping is handled here - it's important. (In the logic error, Battler can go through the door but he cannot leave while the chain is unset)
2) Now it would be weird in context, but it is lampshaded by Meta!Erika in red anyway. Maybe it can be done in some other ways but here I go: Battler unset chain lock and hides again(!). Erika go out (!), Yasu killed her and ransforms into her Kanon persona. (statisfying "only Kanon and Erika entered the guest room").
3) Kanon rescues Battler. Dead body is put in the closet. The Sheet and Kanon's clother will be put on it. Closet is shot.

I won't expect that somebody would buy that. However it would explain some things in a plausible way I think (like giving Erika a real motive) and make some cool follow ups (maybe in the bad way) like Shannon appears in front of Battler.

@Battler Why is this crazy? I mean that kind of facade was used with a dead family head, with a dead person from 1967 and a "dead" onii-chan.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Because it doesn't work with Erika. Saying "The Erika we see in Ep 5 is not the detective" just doesn't work. That would be lying about something for the sake of lying, and it makes NOTHING in Episode 5 concrete. Making nothing in Ep 6 concrete works because they actually tell you the answer in plaintext. But it doesn't work for Episode 5. At that point, it's to decieve for the sake of decieving, and it's pointless. Making that true doesn't enhance or obscure the mystery in any way, it just makes things unnecessarily complicated and makes it work far less.