So about the implications of Battler's romance (MAJOR SPOILERS)

[Magus]

I was being vague for the sake of spoilers, but this is about Yasu/Beatrice and Battler getting together. I'm on ep 7. Did the author seriously make an incest couple after rightfully condemning Kinzo for being incestuous? I realize the circumstances are different here since there's no coercion in Battler's situation, but it still put a bad taste in my mouth cause I find incest really gross. I know Umineko has a thousand twists so is there an explanation later that makes Battler and Beato not incestuous?

I realize this is a story and I know there's a difference between fiction and reality, but I basically dropped the VN after that reveal because it bothered me so much, and I'm really hoping there's more to it because Umineko was one of the best stories I've ever read up to this point and I'd like to finish it if it turns out there's more to that situation.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

I would very much recommend finishing it but also yes that is exactly what happened

[DeRockProject (jongyon7192p)]

If you feel the incest is gross, that is EXACTLY how the author intended for you to feel, how you SHOULD feel, and it will be discussed most directly in Confessions of Ep 8. But I think you can infer from it and solve a few of the mysteries still left, too.

I know there is "a difference between fiction and reality," but an author wholeheartedly encouraging incest is STILL troublesome, and Umineko is not that.

[Magus]

Originally posted by DeRockProject (jongyon7192p):

If you feel the incest is gross, that is EXACTLY how the author intended for you to feel, how you SHOULD feel, and it will be discussed most directly in Confessions of Ep 8. But I think you can infer from it and solve a few of the mysteries still left, too.

I know there is "a difference between fiction and reality," but an author wholeheartedly encouraging incest is STILL troublesome, and Umineko is not that.

That's good to hear. If it's framed as something that's supposed to be gross and not encouraged then that changes things for me. I've gotten way too used to anime treating incest like it's "fine actually because of these 6 reasons" so it's nice to know that's not the case here.

[Ellixer]

Up to you how you feel about it, but it's worth pointing out that Sayo is very likely motivated by the same disgust. Episode 7 dresses over it with fantastical elements, but imagine how she feels when the one thing she wants to experience most is love, before finding out everyone she's in love with are her nieces and nephews, who she believes would feel deceived and disgusted if she ever reveals the truth to them. There's a reason why she feels happiness is impossible, except perhaps in the afterlife.

Whether the Golden Land makes that love "okay" because it is fantastical/symbolic/metaphysical/not real/the afterlife/whatever, that's up to you. The Beatrice depicted is several layers removed from the real person Sayo to some, which makes it fine for some people. Beatrice in the Golden Land is never treated as a relative of the Ushiromiya save for one scene in the manga that I can think of. I can understand not feeling okay with it still.

[Magus]

That's a good point. The other thing that bothers me is the age gap between George and Sayo, which is made all the worse because they were my fav ship before I realized George was 25. I tried to find out if that kind of thing was common in Japan in the 80s but I couldn't find out one way or the other. Does anyone know?

[Ellixer]

I don't know if it's the period or if it's Ryukishi07 failing to think through the age, but you're not alone there. Much of the fandom thinks it's pretty gross that George was jealous of Shannon getting on with his cousin when she was like, I think 12? Their actual age gap is a bit smaller by a few years than what he thinks it is, but it's pretty squick still. Other than him feeling ashamed of his incel attitudes in the past, it's not remarked upon much, so I'm not fond of it.

[DeRockProject (jongyon7192p)]

The Ushiromiya family is all supposed to be flawed in real ways after all. Unlike the fantasy characters who feel more like story characters, lol.

Yeah I forgot Confessions of the Golden Witch in Ep8 is a manga only story, and it's my favorite part of all Umineko. So hope you check it out after the VN

[Magus]

Was the manga written by Ryukishi? I know a lot of manga adaptations tend to involve other authors adapting original content without the author's direct involvement.

[Battler Ushiromiya]

Confessions of the Golden Witch at the very least is 100% canon

[Eisenerz]

Originally posted by Battler Ushiromiya:

Confessions of the Golden Witch at the very least is 100% canon

I must burst your bubble. Confession of the Golden Witch is a plot hole - this means there are good chances that the Confession arc isn't completely true. You were probably speedreading the manga and you didn't notice. But people generally don't know that because they spread hasty conclusions when the manga was translated and the interview was online.

[Ellixer]

Originally posted by Magus:

Was the manga written by Ryukishi? I know a lot of manga adaptations tend to involve other authors adapting original content without the author's direct involvement.

Yes, according to wikipedia. Ryukishi07 had said the answer provided in the manga is the solution to the visual novel that he is willing to provide in an adaptation and not in a visual novel because he felt enough time had passed that people had a fair shot at arriving at the solution themselves. If you already accept that Sayo is the culprit, I don't think anything depicted in the manga would surprise you, they are all perfectly natural consequences of that base premise. If you care about the characters and, like, don't hold onto some alternative theory even at this point in time, then I consider the manga is borderline mandatory reading.

[Magus]

Originally posted by Ellixer:

Originally posted by Magus:

Was the manga written by Ryukishi? I know a lot of manga adaptations tend to involve other authors adapting original content without the author's direct involvement.

Yes, according to wikipedia. Ryukishi07 had said the answer provided in the manga is the solution to the visual novel that he is willing to provide in an adaptation and not in a visual novel because he felt enough time had passed that people had a fair shot at arriving at the solution themselves. If you already accept that Sayo is the culprit, I don't think anything depicted in the manga would surprise you, they are all perfectly natural consequences of that base premise. If you care about the characters and, like, don't hold onto some alternative theory even at this point in time, then I consider the manga is borderline mandatory reading.

I've been curious about the manga for a while. Two questions. Is there a way to buy the whole thing in one book? I've seen the individual volumes on Amazon but they seemed like potential bootlegs, plus I don't have a ton of space for books. Second question, where should I start with the manga? I've watched a lot of anime where going back to the manga feels redundant until you get to a point where things diverge.

[Ellixer]

Probably can't buy it in one book. It's loooooong.

If you feel like seeing only things that are new only, then these are the biggest changes:

. Willard's answer in Episode 7.

. The Halloween party in Episode 8, prior to the fantasy characters showing up.

. Confession of the Golden Witch and the subsequent chapter in Episode 8, which comes after Ange leaps of the tall building.

. The magic ending.

I'd recommend all of Episode 8 to be honest since the art is excellent but if you want new things those are it.

[DeRockProject (jongyon7192p)]

There is one flaw with the manga. It doesn't have the masterful soundtrack.

But here? And it works so well, too!

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVrjdZi6jp7x3K7bsG82GlzGUaabj1LXC

Sadly all of goldsmith works got the youtube takedown. Only ep8 is fully intact.