Umineko When They Cry - Answer Arcs

Umineko When They Cry - Answer Arcs

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Snek Dec 29, 2020 @ 8:52pm
Finished and still so confused
I have a million questions. I feel like Battler right now trying to figure stuff out.

Is there some kind of summery for this story preferably in video format or something not wiki? Everything was an illusion of Ange? Beatrice is too cool and iconic to be an illusion! It's not fair! What is real? who is real? Kanon and Shannon are the same? When did that get explained? Or is a lot of this supposed to be open to interpretation? Can someone explain the magic ending?

Now I feel terrible for hating Beato after ep3, I wish this was a fantasy.

It doesn't seem like everything was an Illusion, like the higher level witches.


Also how do I get the game master achievement? I did both endings.
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Ellixer Dec 29, 2020 @ 9:23pm 
First of all, the story is supposed to be open to interpretation. The answer the story arrives at is sometimes you have to make your own truth. Yes, there are facts, and the facts are strongly implied in my opinion (more on that later), but the truth? What any of it means in the end, what do these things say about the heart of these characters (if anything), what happens after facts become mere dust, those things are for you to decide. The battle with the goats is meant to say that truth is personal, and in a mystery story you owe it to yourself to work it out for yourself, that Ange's obsession with the facts blinded her to the truth, and when she looked at the answers for herself it turned out that it was much less meaningful than the truth she arrived at at the end. Maybe all of it was coping mechanism by both Battler and Ange that helped them come to term with the loss of their family as well as the fact that despite everything their family still means so much to them. Maybe the Golden Land is real and it is their form of an afterlife, and though Ange cannot truly see them before her time it doesn't make them any less real or their faith in her any less powerful. The endings basically ask you whether you believe (or are willing to indulge) a very subjective truth (Fantasy Ending) or are facts (Mystery Ending, kind of?) the only thing you can digest?

If you want to know what happened on Rokkenjima, then the manga adaptation of Episode 8 includes an entirely new arc that spells out the who, why and how of the mystery. You can try to find the manga however you want (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post scanlation here), but there are videos on youtube that plays the game's amazing soundtrack over the manga adaptation of Episode 8, which I greatly enjoyed.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE35i0Rari6t346YDDahb-YawVSopvxaC

As for the culprit, Shannon and Kanon are indeed the same character, or at least that is strongly implied by the visual novel and outright confirmed by the manga. This is something that you can pick during the previous episodes, but it is much strongly hinted at during Episode 6 (where only Shannon, Kanon or Beatrice's love can survived, but not all three, and where the three of them being the same person is the solution to the puzzle Beatrice posed Erika) and Episode 7 (where Will attempted to put Shannon and Kanon in the same room and cannot).

The Magic Ending is fairly simple I think. After the true event of Rokkenjima (basically the events Bern showed Ange in Episode 7), Battler finds Beatrice (who survived Kyrie's shot) and the two of them escaped to the hidden base on Rokkenjima. Beatrice (who revealed herself to be Sayo to him) helped Battler escaped. Battler asked her to come with him. Some way out at sea, Beatrice found that she cannot forgive herself, or that she cannot find the strength to live on, threw herself into the sea, tying gold to her foot to drag her down. Battler jumped in to save her but he failed to. In her eyes, he came back and let himself be dragged into the sea to be with her (which is metaphorically true). Battler survived and eventually dragged himself back to land, where he is found by Featherine (the human Featherine, I forgot if she has a name in the real world), and the rest you have seen. He lost his memories due to the trauma and/or physical damage he sustained, and slowly recovered them through writing the forgeries of what happened on Rokkenjima. Years later, he finally found the courage to meet with Ange again. You know the rest. All of it is adapted into the manga, as one of my favourite moments in Umineko ever. To add to the tragedy Battler seems to have solved the riddle himself, only a few hours too late. If he has managed it before the adults did, these things might have been averted. Or maybe not, but one can dream. And not only that if Beatrice hadn't thought Kyrie were coming to kill them, they might have been rescued by Eva and reunited with Ange sooner. The fates are cruel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V223NuyzJI0
Last edited by Ellixer; Dec 29, 2020 @ 9:59pm
Sergent H Dec 29, 2020 @ 11:58pm 
If you got all of time; i suggest it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRkT3KCfiow&t=2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpCh67jDV3g&ab_channel=BrummelHummel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDtgRszW5zQ&ab_channel=BrummelHummel

Sadly the Part 2 is missing; it's a big analysis of Umineko with a different point of view; more pragmatic on a solution using only red quote (what i agree)
Ellixer Dec 30, 2020 @ 12:19am 
Originally posted by Sergent H:
If you got all of time; i suggest it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRkT3KCfiow&t=2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpCh67jDV3g&ab_channel=BrummelHummel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDtgRszW5zQ&ab_channel=BrummelHummel

Sadly the Part 2 is missing; it's a big analysis of Umineko with a different point of view; more pragmatic on a solution using only red quote (what i agree)

From what little I've seen of the theory, I do not have enough interest to sit through all 4 parts, so I won't argue the logical merit of the theory itself. I am curious if there is a non-video source where I can just read at my own pace though. The tone gets on my nerve (which does not necessarily detract from the merit of the content itself, not that this is my only issue with it, but I'm not inclined to get into it) so I'd be more willing to absorb the theory if it wasn't stretched out over so many hours in video form.

I should add that no matter what I personally feel about it, theory crafting like this, especially with so much work put into it, is in a way very much in the spirit that the text tries to invoke in the readers, so good job for the creator.
Last edited by Ellixer; Dec 30, 2020 @ 12:22am
Sergent H Dec 30, 2020 @ 12:38am 
There is no writing / no-video to my knowledge.

His tone helped me watch it, as a non-english first language user; kinda funny someone use the reverse it

9-10 hours video would be very long to script, shamely for me :steamsad:
Ellixer Dec 30, 2020 @ 1:03am 
Originally posted by Sergent H:
There is no writing / no-video to my knowledge.

His tone helped me watch it, as a non-english first language user; kinda funny someone use the reverse it

9-10 hours video would be very long to script, shamely for me :steamsad:

Understandable. I was hoping there's a script somewhere on the internet, but if not it's fair that no one has the time to transcribe that. I usually prefer video format too but when it's that large I'd rather take the advantage of speed that comes with plain text personally.
I really enjoyed that video series. It's like the Episode 9 of Umineko. Sadly it's missing an Episode 10 of Umineko that counters every flaw in it. That would be epic. It seems most people know this video series' arguments has many flaws and to see it pointed out would make it a classic Umineko battle!
Snek Dec 30, 2020 @ 9:46pm 
What happened at the end of the episode 8 ???? ending? I guess that is the bit up to interpretation?

I've read some youtube comments here and there but will check up all the stuff posted here. The truth is pretty dark and messed up it reminds me of a certain king from Spain. It is so hard to understand there is so many metaphors but I think I finally get what happened.

So let me try and get it straight. Yasu/Beatrice solved the riddle and seems to also have additional personalities/illusions Beatrice, Shannon and Kanon. If Battler solved the riddle the parents potentially wouldn't of gotten greedy and violent that was also his sin in addition to breaking his promise to Shannon? The ending is actually the beginning of the Metaworld games and Battler's soul sunk with Yasu/Beatrice? Their souls are in the golden land and pieces? The point of the murder games were to try and remind Battler of his promise/that he is dead?

I learned never hire Kyrie for murder.


I think that is all the questions I have I'll post again if I remember anything. Thanks for all the answers I'll check out all the videos as well but in chunks since they are really long.
Ellixer Dec 31, 2020 @ 1:56am 
Originally posted by Ayy lmao:
What happened at the end of the episode 8 ???? ending? I guess that is the bit up to interpretation?

I've read some youtube comments here and there but will check up all the stuff posted here. The truth is pretty dark and messed up it reminds me of a certain king from Spain. It is so hard to understand there is so many metaphors but I think I finally get what happened.

So let me try and get it straight. Yasu/Beatrice solved the riddle and seems to also have additional personalities/illusions Beatrice, Shannon and Kanon. If Battler solved the riddle the parents potentially wouldn't of gotten greedy and violent that was also his sin in addition to breaking his promise to Shannon? The ending is actually the beginning of the Metaworld games and Battler's soul sunk with Yasu/Beatrice? Their souls are in the golden land and pieces? The point of the murder games were to try and remind Battler of his promise/that he is dead?

I learned never hire Kyrie for murder.


I think that is all the questions I have I'll post again if I remember anything. Thanks for all the answers I'll check out all the videos as well but in chunks since they are really long.

Sayo/Yasu/Shannon/Beatrice solved the riddle and acquired large sum of wealth as well as the loyalty of many of the servants in the process.

Sayo does not have multiple personalities or illusions. Ever since she was a child, she retreats into her own imaginary world to escape from the hardship of the real world and her own situation. When she notices discrepancies between her own body and those of her female classmates, she starts thinking of herself as a bit of a freak, and with the help of the other servants, she adopted a male persona to dump all her negative feelings onto. Sayo does not have multiple personalities like Jekyll and Hyde or something. But there are different contradictory aspects to her person, and she projects these things to different characters she make up in her mind. Shannon contains her outward persona that she shows to the world: helpful, harmless, subservient. Kanon contains her bitterness of her own situation. Beatrice began as a prank (as well as imaginary friend), but grew to contain her deepest self-loathing after she learned the truth about herself and Kinzo. From an anti-fantasy perspective, other fantasy characters were imaginary characters Sayo made up and shared with Maria.

If Battler solved the riddle he would have his hand on the gold and Beatrice wouldn't kill. However, as we have seen in Episode 7, the issue with the family runs much deeper and it is unlikely that this would have saved everyone in the end. Not solving the riddle was not his "sin". His sin is making Shannon a promise to make himself look cool while taking it way less seriously than she did. He might have completely forgotten about her when his mom died (which I personally think is fair enough considering he was just a kid). It is implied that he liked Shannon a lot, even referring to her as his first love later, but he nonetheless very likely completely forgot about his promise later, and took it much less seriously than she did, since he had a life outside the island and she did not.

The ending you talked about is manga exclusive. It is unknown if Ryukishi intended the Meta World to be real and Battler (or at least part of him) was literally trapped in the afterlife and that Episode 1 occurred immediately after the Magic Ending. Beyond that however, the point of the meta world (in the visual novel) was indeed to make Battler remember his promise as well as understand Sayo (hence why she made herself out to be laughably evil in Episode 3 when Battler began accepting magic, as it would mean he would stop trying to find the truth). I'd also like to believe that on some level, both of them just enjoyed the mind game as avid readers of mystery novels. After Episode 4 where Beatrice asked him directly about the sin and he remembered nothing, she got disheartened and gave up, believing that something that meant so much to her meant so little to him.

Whether you believe the meta world is real and the characters are spirits trapped in the afterlife is up to you. Magic cannot be disproven. Go with whichever version is personally more meaningful to you. The story does not try to present anti-fantasy or fantasy as the objective truth in my opinion. If you believe that after Tohya met with Ange and came to the Halloween party, he remembered and accepted everything that happened, causing the aspect of him that died on the boat with Beatrice to be freed and join her in the Golden Land in the afterlife, that I think is a perfectly valid truth.
Battler Ushiromiya Dec 31, 2020 @ 12:28pm 
Originally posted by Sergent H:
If you got all of time; i suggest it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRkT3KCfiow&t=2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpCh67jDV3g&ab_channel=BrummelHummel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDtgRszW5zQ&ab_channel=BrummelHummel

Sadly the Part 2 is missing; it's a big analysis of Umineko with a different point of view; more pragmatic on a solution using only red quote (what i agree)
Do not watch this for any reason other than ironically. The theory is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful and it only exists because people got pissy at the real solution
Snek Dec 31, 2020 @ 3:14pm 
Thanks for the explanations, Ellixer. I get the story a lot better now and see it in a new perspective, makes me want to go through it again. If you have time can you explain the meaning behind the story about the VIP room that Jessica tells Will? And what is going on with Maria?
Ellixer Dec 31, 2020 @ 10:33pm 
Originally posted by Ayy lmao:
Thanks for the explanations, Ellixer. I get the story a lot better now and see it in a new perspective, makes me want to go through it again. If you have time can you explain the meaning behind the story about the VIP room that Jessica tells Will? And what is going on with Maria?

The VIP room I think is one of Umineko's classic tricks: Present a seemingly obvious solution, tricking the reader into believing "no that can't be it". The truth is that Jessica basically told us the answer. It really was a conspiracy to freak Jessica out. It was scarily elaborate, but Sayo is exactly the type of person to go to such lengths to perpetuate the legends and fears of the golden witch. It's simple. After Jessica directly stated her disbelief of Beatrice in front of Shannon, Shannon decided to concoct a scheme with the assistance of Kumasawa and/or Genji to scare her. It was stated that only four servants were on the island that day: Shannon, Kumasawa, Genji and Gohda. Gohda is very likely not in on it, but Kumasawa and Genji were more than enough accomplices. What happened is either Shannon really did keep a recording of Maria singing, or she called Maria and told her to call back to this number at a certain time and repeat these lines (which is similar to what happened in Episode 1). Then, Shannon hid under the bed (I reread the manga, and Jessica even outright said it sounded like someone was crawling out from under the bed) before Jessica came into the room and waited. Genji or Kumasawa then cut the power (timed so that this happened shortly after Maria's call), and Shannon crawled out from under the bed while Jessica can't see her, made some noises to freak Jessica out, then took the doll and ran out of the room.

If you have faith in the Mystery POV, this story is meant to provide hint that there are people who live on the island who perpetuate the legends of the golden witch (and therefore the culprit is someone who either lives on the island or has accomplice(s) who live there), and that the servants are likely the culprit or accomplices (if not then they must somehow have access to the phone line and power line). As you can see, if we assume Sayo is the culprit and Genji and Kumasawa are her accomplices, these turn out to be very important clues.

I don't think there's anything complicated going on with Maria. Episode 7 told you what's up. Maria likely has some form of disorder. She is incredibly obsessive about her interests, is an avid collector of trivia knowledge relating to her interests, has a highly imaginative mind and is easy to manipulate into believing and serving the supernatural. She retreats to her imaginary world to escape from her ♥♥♥♥♥♥ home life, which makes her a very useful tool to perpetuate the fears of the witch, as she is a true believer and does not need directions from Sayo to spread fears and rumors. What I think happened initially is that Shannon saw this little girl being lonely and sad at the family meeting, so she pretended to be a servant possessed by the witch and began sharing arcane knowledge with her in the form of basic sleight of hand and possibly sharing notes and sketches of her imaginary witch friends. Sayo doesn't believe witches are real I think. She's just playing and coping. Maria does however, and that makes her useful for spreading fears.

Oh yeah in addition to Confession of the Golden Witch, Episode 7 in the manga also laid out the solutions to all the murders if you want to see that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8MoXDVjs1Y
Last edited by Ellixer; Dec 31, 2020 @ 10:39pm
Sergent H Jan 3, 2021 @ 11:10am 
Nicely explain Ellixer; just a dark prank. I imagine easily Kuwasawa the one under the bed who scream all over
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