Regarding Sagawa [SPOILER]

[47Haven]

I just finished the game yesterday, and there's one thing that bothers me, especially regarding the whole Sagawa thing

Why are we supposed to feel bad for him? Even moreso, why is Majima respectful to him? Throughout the game he has been nothing but a prick to Majima, using him like a lapdog and treating him like one, and it even took the patriach to get him off Majima's back. I get that he's Majima's superior in every way, being the sworn brother of the patriach, but he hasn't earned his respect, especially since Sagawa clearly made attempts at his life several times in the past. Majima respecting Shimano makes slightly more sense, loyalty and all, but it still doesn't change the fact that neither Sagawa or Shimano made attempt at respecting Majima, aside from keeping him alive, which in the end is to use him further. Perhaps not shooting Shimano is Majima's respect to Saejima, not to Shimano, but it's still made more sense than Sagawa.

It's not like Sagawa made any attempt on gaining that respect either, unlike Kuze and Awano who deserved that respect despite being a prick earlier on, it's just all of the sudden in the ending cutscene, both Sagawa and Majima got together like old pals catching up on a drink. The game even portrays Sagawa as this honorable guy who lives and dies honorably, but this is the only time we've seen him treating Majima as equal, so his death ultimately means nothing for me, i even felt like he finally got his comeuppance

Sure, perhaps by meeting Makoto and Sera, Majima learned to forgive and forget, he even managed to not kill Lao Gui and Dojima, which was the main reason he went ham in the first place, which would explains why he has no interest in killing either Sagawa or Shimano, but the game still portrays Sagawa as someone WE should feels bad about

That's my take on thing, what do you think about him in particular?

[󠀡󠀡]

Basically to Sagawa it was his job so no hard feelings. Nothing personal, just work as usual being a yakuza,

[TGT]

I don't feel bad for Sagawa or respect him because he killed his cat.

[Lie Chen Zhou]

I feel bad cause I never had a chance to punch him in the face

[Sentient_Toaster]

Perhaps part of Majima's respect for Sagawa was just recognition that Sagawa had so far lasted a pretty long time in a career path that tends to involve violent conflict, even with having an oath brother in a rival organization that might have led to suspicions. That same relationship might have caused trouble for Majima if he'd treated Sagawa badly.

Also, by that point, Majima's aware that Sagawa had also been kept in the dark by Shimano and whichever Omi higher-up was his fellow conspirator. Sagawa hadn't been told any of the whys, for whatever reason.

[MeatShake]

I complained about this is my review but it seems like the writers really really loved to use character arcs where the person's really unlikable then suddenly they're cool and you love em but then they die immediately afterwards.

It's just a cheap and super effective way to get you all emotional about characters like "Nooo he was just getting cool and he DIED!!!"

They did it with the dirty cop who ran the underworld, Nishitani, Lee, Oda, Awano, Sera (technically), and probably a few others I forgot. But yeah it got to the point in the game where I realized people were gonna die because they went from being annoying jerks to really cool completely outta nowhere.

*Another technical one- Club Moon's owner.

[47Haven]

Originally posted by MeatShake:

I complained about this is my review but it seems like the writers really really loved to use character arcs where the person's really unlikable then suddenly they're cool and you love em but then they die immediately afterwards.

It's just a cheap and super effective way to get you all emotional about characters like "Nooo he was just getting cool and he DIED!!!"

They did it with the dirty cop who ran the underworld, Nishitani, Lee, Oda, Awano, Sera (technically), and probably a few others I forgot. But yeah it got to the point in the game where I realized people were gonna die because they went from being annoying jerks to really cool completely outta nowhere.

*Another technical one- Club Moon's owner.

I do not mind either of the business substories arcs being cheesy as hell, because i can see that the writer had fun with the story, and doesn't try to make it believable like the main story. It's a fun kind of ironic twist to the usual telenovela show, so i'm not going to berate them for it.

Biliken (the cop who ran the underworld), Nishitani, and Lee had a proper development by themselves, and they didn't 'became cool before they died', especially Nishitani who always acts like that. If you count the moment right before they died tho, then ye, but at least Nishitani has a good reason to shield Majima. Awano and Oda was a rugpull, but i can respect where they came from, even though Awano's the one that pulled a complete 180 outta nowhere. Dunno about Sera, but if you're referring to the part where he shot after talking to Majima, i already expected something like that to happen. We all know Sagawa is around in the inn, he has a gun, and Majima took his sweet time talking and battling Sera.

Best one that got this treatment was Kuze hands down, because from the start (well technically from the sewer fight) we were told that he's a man of honor, and his action after that point reflects that.

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Perhaps part of Majima's respect for Sagawa was just recognition that Sagawa had so far lasted a pretty long time in a career path that tends to involve violent conflict, even with having an oath brother in a rival organization that might have led to suspicions. That same relationship might have caused trouble for Majima if he'd treated Sagawa badly.

Also, by that point, Majima's aware that Sagawa had also been kept in the dark by Shimano and whichever Omi higher-up was his fellow conspirator. Sagawa hadn't been told any of the whys, for whatever reason.

But that's not respect, that's fear, and like Majima showed throughout the game, it's not Sagawa he respected, it's Shimano, either out of the wish that he wants to get back, or just plain respect your patriach, or because Shimano spared him, but it's not Sagawa. Sagawa was just a middle man between the two.

Regarding lasting that long, but anyone could've done that, i mean Majima himself lasted much longer than he should, being able to survive the torture.

Yes we're also aware that Sagawa had to take the blame for Shimano's action of eliminating the Omi Alliance higher-ups, but again, why are we supposed to feel bad for him? The one of the scene, the speech, the way Majima treats him, it all says that we should feel bad for him because he was set up to take the fall and he took it honorably and all, but outside of the ending scene, he has been a complete prick to everyone but Shimano.

Originally posted by Kazuma"Never Killed a Man"Kiryu:

I don't feel bad for Sagawa or respect him because he killed his cat.

Technically not his, but the family's, and since the cat ate his pet, that's a reason for him to kill the cat. Kinda like how the yakuza thing works

[Redblaze27]

Originally posted by Tohru Adachi:

Basically to Sagawa it was his job so no hard feelings.

Pretty much this, its implied that Sawaga in truth grew to care about Majima.

I feel the intent was to make you have mixed feelings on the matter.

[Burny]

Don't forget that Majima was the one that double-crossed Sagawa by taking on the job to kill Makoto and not following through which caused him lots of trouble. He was actually honest about talking Shimano into letting him back into the family and didn't know about his plan until later on.

[MeatShake]

I think another trope in crime games is bitter endings. Mafia 2 is a good example where everything works out then for no reason they kill Joe and when Vito's like "Hey wtf" the boss is just like "Someone has to die to balance this out." They wanted a happy ending but also to make it clear things were neither clean nor are they over.

Shibusawa's story kinda hinted at this with his father's story of being the fall guy for someone else driving him to suicide. Sagawa could have just taken a fall for his boss much like Shibusawa's father.

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Burny:

Don't forget that Majima was the one that double-crossed Sagawa by taking on the job to kill Makoto and not following through which caused him lots of trouble. He was actually honest about talking Shimano into letting him back into the family and didn't know about his plan until later on.

Yeah but Sagawa told him he'd be killing a guy with a bat tattoo who was a human trafficker who preyed on women, and then he found out Makoto was a blind girl who was a victim of this.

So no I wouldn't call that a double cross, either Sagawa had bad information or was flat out lying.

[Redblaze27]

It was bad info, as Sagawa was being played to some degree too.

[medion_no]

I think Sagawa respect Majima in some sort of way, subtle details like glances or the speech when they drink together in Sagawa's favorite place in Sotenbori. The choice of the place speaks louder than words. He had the chance to outright kill him at some point in the game for his betray and he doest do it. He is only persistent with his Yakuza job like Majima himself says at the end.
And for the Shimano part: "If you love your kids, send them on a trip to see the world." He makes Majima his captain after all.

[LArc7thHeaven]

Originally posted by 47Haven:

Sure, perhaps by meeting Makoto and Sera, Majima learned to forgive and forget, he even managed to not kill Lao Gui and Dojima, which was the main reason he went ham in the first place, which would explains why he has no interest in killing either Sagawa or Shimano, but the game still portrays Sagawa as someone WE should feels bad about

That's my take on thing, what do you think about him in particular?

Remember that majima is a calm and collected man and rather pragmatic in each approach. Why don't kill shimano because he better dead for his kyoudai (saejima) because he is the reason why saejima incarcerated alone and that his burden. what makes him changed the most is his meeting with nishitani so he prefer live his life to full rather than looked back

[suf]

What the fck is this take? old ass thread but this is the dumb3st thing i read.

Sagawa was a scumbag through and through—he manipulated, threatened, and used Majima like a pawn the entire game. Yeah, he had moments of “mentor” energy, but that doesn’t make him honorable or someone we’re supposed to feel bad for. His death wasn’t some tragic moment, it was just the natural consequence of his own shady actions catching up to him. He played the game, lost, and paid the price. Simple as that.

And that whole “why does Majima respect him?” argument? My guy, Majima is calculating. He plays along because he knows how the yakuza world works, not because he’s suddenly got some deep admiration for Sagawa. Majima is all about survival and picking his battles. He doesn’t waste time on pointless revenge when there are bigger things at stake. It’s not about respecting Sagawa—it’s about understanding the game and knowing when to move on. Holding onto petty grudges in that world? That’s how you get yourself killed.

People who try to paint Sagawa as some tragic, honorable figure are just straight-up reaching. He was never meant to be that. He wasn’t some noble warrior who went down with dignity—he was a slimy, self-serving yakuza who finally ran out of luck. The game doesn’t frame his death as some emotional, gut-wrenching moment—it’s just a natural conclusion to his character arc. You don’t have to feel bad for him, and the fact that some people do says more about them than the game itself.

At the end of the day, Majima learned, adapted, and came out stronger. Meanwhile, Sagawa? He played his hand wrong and paid for it. That’s all there is to it. Some people just think way too hard about this stuff instead of seeing what’s right in front of them.

Overanalyzing this to make Sagawa seem like some honor-bound tragic figure is just goofy.

[Hotel Security]

^Agreed. The OP is silly. I don't think the game wants you to feel sympathy for Sagawa at all. It's simply portraying a character who tried to play the game and advance himself and lost.

I think the only reason Majima is polite with him at the end is because he knows he's talking to a dead man...no need for animosity when Majima knows he came out on top.