Killed by Apocalypse on the first run

[ulisse31]

Quite good pip population, almost all tech researched, going through the last winter, preparing for the apocalypse... everything set waiting for the climax... and at the season change I couldn't seed my crops. All the farms were not working, so obviously this triggered a snowball effect due to starvation.
Ok, I get it that it is somehow intended to die on the first run, but the reason I died was not lack of preparation (kind of). I'm not asking for any specific chance, just it was quite unexpected to get out of the winter and not being able to use any farming skill :/

Time for the next run now!

[Catman]

Very good job getting there at your first try! That's not usual at all!

I can see how the first time you see the Apocalypse this could be confusing, even if the game tells that the Apocalypse is going to be rough, I can see people expecting that Season would get back to Spring hmmm

There is a very high chance for a specific boon that would have solved your issue to appear, which allows Crops to work during Apocalypse, but you probably did not find it? To avoid the issue, I'm thinking of making it certain until you unlock more boons, so that the first game you are bound to encounter it.

Thanks for the feedback! I'll think about it and try it for next update!

[DsnowMan]

I dunno, there's something about the word apocalypse (and the colour of the season you preview through the game) that suggests to me that it's not a normal spring.

I think in early access I was surprised that some fields or bushes worked (since fixed), I was expecting no source of food.

[DsnowMan]

I think you should work it into the narrative if anything. Have one of the pips ask "what will happen to our crops?" and the leader can explain

[Catman]

I agree that that the colour should be telling, however this is not the first time people found it surprising that it was not just Spring. So it seems to me that some more guiding is in order

[BadLucky]

it should be explicitly stated, the elder could easily say something like "the apocalypse could be really tough, I bet we won't be able to farm" or something like that. Discovery in moments in games is fine but after a single run that takes like 20 hours to get there this can really put people off if they didn't know.

[Catman]

I agree, I found out there was a boon that triggered erroneously at that page with very little chance, which explains the issue. I also intend to improve the hint to make it clearer

[Capn Forge]

I think the fact that it typically comes directly after winter as well, adds to the difficulty curve/shock value. Hard to stock up for the winter AND the Apocalypse, and having it all hinge on getting the Growth boon feels kinda odd. It makes that boon an instant pick, especially compared to the other % chances.

Maybe allowing farming, but at a penalty? Half output or double growth length or something would help the apocalypse feel rough, but without locking out an entire tech tree.

[kory]

Originally posted by Capn Forge:

I think the fact that it typically comes directly after winter as well, adds to the difficulty curve/shock value. Hard to stock up for the winter AND the Apocalypse, and having it all hinge on getting the Growth boon feels kinda odd. It makes that boon an instant pick, especially compared to the other % chances.

Maybe allowing farming, but at a penalty? Half output or double growth length or something would help the apocalypse feel rough, but without locking out an entire tech tree.

I certainly dont consider the growth boon an instant pick, usually I have enough stored up by the end, the late game food production is very strong.

[piglet]

I think it makes sense to be possible with limited effectiveness without a boon where say production is halved for all seasonal buildings in the Apocalypse and the boon would allow for full production. This would still encourage storage before hand and the boon would still be useful but it would be more in line with other boons like 50% immunity that reduce a certain problem of the Apocalypse without removing it entirely.

[Akhorahil]

You need to have *huge* stores of food going into the apocalypse, 300-500 of multiple types. This is made harder when it comes just after winter, so you need to have huge stores of food-making materials going into winter.

Year two has to produce a _vast_ surplus.

Although one option you can be offered is to have seasonal stuff working during the apocalypse, which makes food a breeze.

[OrcishSpacesuit]

For a new player, the fact that the Apocalypse is a Season, and not, say, a singular Event, can also be surprising. I mean, it's obvious once you get there and look at the UI, but up until that point one might think that the Spring Season is coming up with some Apocalypse action in part of it, or the game's just going to end in a final event instead of lasting a whole extra season.

[Capn Forge]

I think that's the big design principle miss for me - if you're behind, the seasonal boon allows you to catch up. If you're massively ahead, then its less necessary.

The fact remains that this single boon has a huge swing impact either way, far beyond "20% chance to resist burning" or even "25% more hope"

I think this largely a factor of so much of the techs being seasonal, which is fine when you're rotating around the clock. But when they ALL turn off? After the long cold dark as well?

-You're pushed to either skew towards a small segment of techs that are year round
-Rush the Tower to shortcut winter (which is itself a marker of being far ahead of the curve)
-Be ahead of the curve, stack storage like a crazy person, and store hemp and multiple stacks of food/meals.

For a game with a big sense of "Oh crap, I missed an event roll, can I still pull this out?" it feels bizarrely unforgiving of any variance at the end.

I'd love to see a final spring before the end times, and/or a change to allow Apocalypse seasonal items at a reduced production rate - with the boon changing to remove the penalty.

[Catman]

Apart from the changes I made to make it appear at your first run, I agree the seasonal boon can be stronger than other options for new players (seasoned players often do not take it at all as they are mostly good on food), I have the apocalypse boons on my radar to make the others more interesting choices still

[Capn Forge]

I don't know if it breaks the fundamentals of the game, but I'd love some more variation in the seasons/apoc start as well.

Maybe it starts within a year on a random season. Maybe a Doom award or special task that lets you move up/move back the End a bit more beyond just the Tower.

In any case, thanks for the awesome game!

[Soylent Waste]

im pretty content with the "lack of hand holding". lol i mean, the game is filled with stuff to help you already. but to be specifically told EVERYTHING takes the fun out of any surprises just around the corner.