Secret of Mana

Secret of Mana

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WiZaRd May 5, 2018 @ 10:57am
Pros and Cons
Let me start by saying that I LOVED the original SoM. I played the German "funny text" version and I finished it dozens of times, collected everything, leveled all Magic, Weapons, etc. and thus I was extremely excited when I heard about the remake...
I read some negative and positive reviews and then started playing and took notes that I want to share with you and also the devs (if they care). Unfortunately I cannot post a review without buying the game on Steam and I haven't bought the game (yet) and after extensively trying it on my friends PC, I doubt I will - unless there are quite a lot of changes done in the future (which, sadly, I doubt). There will be spoilers, I guess - so read at your own risk ;)
The HINTs are targeted towards the devs.

PROS/POSITIVE REMARKS
  • Full voiceover
  • Old graphics used as minimap
  • The bow is finally a useful weapon!
  • Hotkeys for Spells and Weapons HINT: this could be so much better if it stored the old weapon when switching so you can switch back and forth with the same hotkey. Even better: allowing combos (hotkey+UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT) for more hotkeys)
  • 8 directions HINT: a setting for this would have been great for retro feeling
  • Running is finally useful, even on stairs! HINT: you should have removed relying on the power bar overall IMHO
  • You can now open menus even if you are currently down, targeted by Magic, opening chests, etc.
  • Water/Lava is really beautiful
  • The Pole can hit several enemies, now
  • Damage when "throwing" enemies via Claws is visible, now
  • The Sword is automatically and correctly used when sealing the Seeds (great detail)
  • Some enemies like the Scorpions or Vampires look really great
  • The new cutscenes are a nice touch

CONS/ISSUES/NEGATIVE REMARKS
  • Controls are... awful, just outright awful! I have to say I used keyboard and mouse because my friends controller recently broke, however, I needed about 10mins to get a proper setup and even after that it just felt WRONG. I mean, you have to use 2 different "arrow keys" for game/menus?! You cannot set the mouse click to both attack and confirm, mouse wheel to scroll!? Who on earth came up with that?
  • There is no real game menu which is just unbelievable! You cannot even pause for a second to adjust the volume or similar, you always have to open the character menu (which is not available during cutscenes, etc.) - it's 2018, you know?! And there's no "overflow" so to exit the game I have to press down 10x!?
  • Many texts changed compared to the original. Remakes usually target us "oldschool" players and that is something that angers us. HINT: you could have added a setting for this!
  • There's a loading screen on EVERY screen change! Even worse: you introduced new transitions where it has to load and that's every 5s in the Mana Fortress. The SNES version was much faster and fun to play there. HINT: I think this is the reason for the crashes because I could play almost the whole game with just 1 or 2 crashes but in the Mana Fortress it crashed twice so far and that prevents me from gathering the final Orbs and finishing the game.
  • The minimap isn't updated e.g. after using switches
  • There is no indicator in the shop to check if equipment is better or worse - again: it's 2018 and this is a fundamental feature of about every RPG
  • Party members are often attacking invisible enemies HINT: I think the problem is that while you kept the 3 enemy limit of the original version, you don't to it correctly. Instead of keeping the same 3 enemies on screen, you consider only 2 when one leaves the screen, render the offscreen enemy invisible and add another enemy.
  • Party members don't prevent that one proceeds by getting stuck but they may get stuck and won't fight with you until you change the screen (you can still use mana, though) HINT: that's another thing that should have gotten a setting to chose the behaviour
  • In-game sliders cannot be adjusted by mouse. I get that this is intended as a simple port but... really?!
  • There seem to be only 2 savegames - really?! Really?! Even the original version had 3!
  • Maybe I'm too stupid but... there's no multiplayer support?
  • The bow is kinda OP due to its rate of fire. 2 bow enemies in the proper location cannot be beaten unless you have access to Magic
  • The "character blinking" got removed and it's harder to determine if you're at 100% power to attack HINT: another candidate for a setting switch
  • The "Wiki" and "The story so far" are nice ideas but basically useless because no info is given there (at least I failed to find it). HINT: there would have been so many ways to make it useful, e.g. to read about all story steps, stats, enemy/weapon kills, possible drops, etc. - really a pity!
  • Translation errors, e.g. in the German version I got a "Lance" from Undine even though it was, in fact, the Pole
  • The last position in the menus isn't remembered. That means if I want to cast a certain spell a few times (without adjusting my hotkeys) then I have to open the menu, rotate the wheel and make my selection over and over again!? Same goes for equipping items, selling items, etc.
  • It seems the Cobold transformed into a Fairy while the girl has Elven ears... those are strange and unnecessary changes, IMHO.
  • The new cutscenes have wasted potential because you never know if one's available. HINT: a simply indicator ("Cutscene available") somewhere would have sufficed!
  • The max level of a Weapon isn't visible anymore. You can see the number of Orbs but not the real level of the Weapon.
  • Characters are now sleeping ON their sheets?
  • The display at Watts has been changed, too - and not for the better. In the past, only improvable Weapons were coloured, all others remained gray.
  • You don't see what Weapons are transformed into anymore. Instead of e.g. (making up names) "Imperator Claws -> Power Glove" you see "Imperator Claws" -> 2"
  • Menu wheels aren't shown above the proper characters and you gotta watch out for the menu colours
  • The visible screen seems smaller than on the SNES - HINT: Zoom/Resolution settings would have made a lot of sense
  • It seems I cannot adjust the text frames and borders anymore?
  • Weapon and Magic levels and effects could have been shown in the menus directly (I know it's like that in the original but there's always room for improvements ;))
  • The slow movement and extreme time to charge attacks is really not contemporary anymore, especially considering how fast enemies die
  • The party hotkey does not remember the last selected team member, e.g. if you're the Boy then it will always open the Girls menu first. That causes additional trouble, e.g. I want to cast a spell with the cobold and open the menu just to find that I currently cannot select the cobold because it's in an attack animation so I have to leave the menu and try again in a few seconds that sucks. HINT: Those "invalidity frames" are also not contemporary anymore, actions could simply get chained in such a case.
  • Some sound effects got a lot worse, e.g. that cool "feather explosion" sound when you kill Owls or the "boom" that e.g. Vampire Heads made are now... not that satisfying
  • Probably another translation error: jackals on the Winter Island?
  • The rollerblade Turtle attack is way too rare and too fast and it seems the SFX is missing
  • When you get saved by your Dragon you can see him fly away in a cutscene and in the next scene you see him picking up the chars again?
  • Almost all spells got a visual downgrade IMHO
  • Max Magic screen freeze is missing - HINT: That's a matter of taste. I personally liked it, it made the spells really awesome - another candidate for a setting switch
  • Some enemies can cast spells so fast that you cannot move at all while our own party cannot cast spells as fast as in the original despite having hotkeys, now
  • You can see character frames behind obstacles, trees, etc. but not enemies/chests, etc.
  • Doorways are harder to detect. I had no problem because I could probably play the game while sleeping but "newer" players...?
  • The "Universe" at Luna Temple looked much better in the original version
  • Why on earth does the Magic Rope still not work in the Mana Fortress?
  • The game is way too easy. Period. No idea what you did there but "Boss battles" don't deserve that name anymore.

I am grateful for one more round of SoM... but unless there are many changes and fixes (and a decent sale), I will rather play my original module.
Thanks for reading.
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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments
there's a button for the options menu, dunno which is atm, but there's
Arty May 21, 2018 @ 7:24pm 
The original had 4 saves, not 3.
Moogy Jun 1, 2018 @ 11:35am 
Ive never played this but i bought snes mini and the game looks interesting, however the ring menu is super annoying and tedious, and the game is so buggy :o
I thought the remake would be better but according to this it seems that this game is not very enjoyable :o
Last edited by Moogy; Jun 1, 2018 @ 11:36am
WiZaRd Jun 3, 2018 @ 12:31am 
Out of interest: What exactly are your issues so far...?
I am not sure what you mean... I haven't played it on the miniSNES but it should be the same as on SNES and aside from a few glitches (most were actually very useful), I haven't encountered any bugs in all the times I played it through.
The old ring menu is a lot better than the current one. It remembers the last location and via X/Y you can open your own/party member menu. It is also more clear which menu you opened because it is shown over the particular character.
Chaoslord 87 Jun 3, 2018 @ 12:38pm 
What bugs me aside from some glitches and the occasional crash (only two times for me in the Pure Lands right after the Savepoints. Since then I had no one) are those pesky loading screens in the Mana Fortress. Sometimes you get a loading screen after a single room!

On the SNES, you can walk almost uninteruppted through the entire Fortress, except for the
Boss teleporters and the first door.
WiZaRd Jun 3, 2018 @ 11:15pm 
Yes, that's really annoying. Unbelievable.
And as stated above, I think those loading screens are what is causing the crashes. If you quit regularly, i.e. without too many loading screens "amassing" then it works fine.
mdcpaladin Jun 7, 2018 @ 5:21am 
Originally posted by WiZaRd:
Let me start by saying that I LOVED the original SoM. I played the German "funny text" version and I finished it dozens of times, collected everything, leveled all Magic, Weapons, etc. and thus I was extremely excited when I heard about the remake...
I read some negative and positive reviews and then started playing and took notes that I want to share with you and also the devs (if they care). Unfortunately I cannot post a review without buying the game on Steam and I haven't bought the game (yet) and after extensively trying it on my friends PC, I doubt I will - unless there are quite a lot of changes done in the future (which, sadly, I doubt). There will be spoilers, I guess - so read at your own risk ;)
The HINTs are targeted towards the devs.

PROS/POSITIVE REMARKS
  • Full voiceover
  • Old graphics used as minimap
  • The bow is finally a useful weapon!
  • Hotkeys for Spells and Weapons HINT: this could be so much better if it stored the old weapon when switching so you can switch back and forth with the same hotkey. Even better: allowing combos (hotkey+UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT) for more hotkeys)
  • 8 directions HINT: a setting for this would have been great for retro feeling
  • Running is finally useful, even on stairs! HINT: you should have removed relying on the power bar overall IMHO
  • You can now open menus even if you are currently down, targeted by Magic, opening chests, etc.
  • Water/Lava is really beautiful
  • The Pole can hit several enemies, now
  • Damage when "throwing" enemies via Claws is visible, now
  • The Sword is automatically and correctly used when sealing the Seeds (great detail)
  • Some enemies like the Scorpions or Vampires look really great
  • The new cutscenes are a nice touch

CONS/ISSUES/NEGATIVE REMARKS
  • Controls are... awful, just outright awful! I have to say I used keyboard and mouse because my friends controller recently broke, however, I needed about 10mins to get a proper setup and even after that it just felt WRONG. I mean, you have to use 2 different "arrow keys" for game/menus?! You cannot set the mouse click to both attack and confirm, mouse wheel to scroll!? Who on earth came up with that?
  • There is no real game menu which is just unbelievable! You cannot even pause for a second to adjust the volume or similar, you always have to open the character menu (which is not available during cutscenes, etc.) - it's 2018, you know?! And there's no "overflow" so to exit the game I have to press down 10x!?
  • Many texts changed compared to the original. Remakes usually target us "oldschool" players and that is something that angers us. HINT: you could have added a setting for this!
  • There's a loading screen on EVERY screen change! Even worse: you introduced new transitions where it has to load and that's every 5s in the Mana Fortress. The SNES version was much faster and fun to play there. HINT: I think this is the reason for the crashes because I could play almost the whole game with just 1 or 2 crashes but in the Mana Fortress it crashed twice so far and that prevents me from gathering the final Orbs and finishing the game.
  • The minimap isn't updated e.g. after using switches
  • There is no indicator in the shop to check if equipment is better or worse - again: it's 2018 and this is a fundamental feature of about every RPG
  • Party members are often attacking invisible enemies HINT: I think the problem is that while you kept the 3 enemy limit of the original version, you don't to it correctly. Instead of keeping the same 3 enemies on screen, you consider only 2 when one leaves the screen, render the offscreen enemy invisible and add another enemy.
  • Party members don't prevent that one proceeds by getting stuck but they may get stuck and won't fight with you until you change the screen (you can still use mana, though) HINT: that's another thing that should have gotten a setting to chose the behaviour
  • In-game sliders cannot be adjusted by mouse. I get that this is intended as a simple port but... really?!
  • There seem to be only 2 savegames - really?! Really?! Even the original version had 3!
  • Maybe I'm too stupid but... there's no multiplayer support?
  • The bow is kinda OP due to its rate of fire. 2 bow enemies in the proper location cannot be beaten unless you have access to Magic
  • The "character blinking" got removed and it's harder to determine if you're at 100% power to attack HINT: another candidate for a setting switch
  • The "Wiki" and "The story so far" are nice ideas but basically useless because no info is given there (at least I failed to find it). HINT: there would have been so many ways to make it useful, e.g. to read about all story steps, stats, enemy/weapon kills, possible drops, etc. - really a pity!
  • Translation errors, e.g. in the German version I got a "Lance" from Undine even though it was, in fact, the Pole
  • The last position in the menus isn't remembered. That means if I want to cast a certain spell a few times (without adjusting my hotkeys) then I have to open the menu, rotate the wheel and make my selection over and over again!? Same goes for equipping items, selling items, etc.
  • It seems the Cobold transformed into a Fairy while the girl has Elven ears... those are strange and unnecessary changes, IMHO.
  • The new cutscenes have wasted potential because you never know if one's available. HINT: a simply indicator ("Cutscene available") somewhere would have sufficed!
  • The max level of a Weapon isn't visible anymore. You can see the number of Orbs but not the real level of the Weapon.
  • Characters are now sleeping ON their sheets?
  • The display at Watts has been changed, too - and not for the better. In the past, only improvable Weapons were coloured, all others remained gray.
  • You don't see what Weapons are transformed into anymore. Instead of e.g. (making up names) "Imperator Claws -> Power Glove" you see "Imperator Claws" -> 2"
  • Menu wheels aren't shown above the proper characters and you gotta watch out for the menu colours
  • The visible screen seems smaller than on the SNES - HINT: Zoom/Resolution settings would have made a lot of sense
  • It seems I cannot adjust the text frames and borders anymore?
  • Weapon and Magic levels and effects could have been shown in the menus directly (I know it's like that in the original but there's always room for improvements ;))
  • The slow movement and extreme time to charge attacks is really not contemporary anymore, especially considering how fast enemies die
  • The party hotkey does not remember the last selected team member, e.g. if you're the Boy then it will always open the Girls menu first. That causes additional trouble, e.g. I want to cast a spell with the cobold and open the menu just to find that I currently cannot select the cobold because it's in an attack animation so I have to leave the menu and try again in a few seconds that sucks. HINT: Those "invalidity frames" are also not contemporary anymore, actions could simply get chained in such a case.
  • Some sound effects got a lot worse, e.g. that cool "feather explosion" sound when you kill Owls or the "boom" that e.g. Vampire Heads made are now... not that satisfying
  • Probably another translation error: jackals on the Winter Island?
  • The rollerblade Turtle attack is way too rare and too fast and it seems the SFX is missing
  • When you get saved by your Dragon you can see him fly away in a cutscene and in the next scene you see him picking up the chars again?
  • Almost all spells got a visual downgrade IMHO
  • Max Magic screen freeze is missing - HINT: That's a matter of taste. I personally liked it, it made the spells really awesome - another candidate for a setting switch
  • Some enemies can cast spells so fast that you cannot move at all while our own party cannot cast spells as fast as in the original despite having hotkeys, now
  • You can see character frames behind obstacles, trees, etc. but not enemies/chests, etc.
  • Doorways are harder to detect. I had no problem because I could probably play the game while sleeping but "newer" players...?
  • The "Universe" at Luna Temple looked much better in the original version
  • Why on earth does the Magic Rope still not work in the Mana Fortress?
  • The game is way too easy. Period. No idea what you did there but "Boss battles" don't deserve that name anymore.

I am grateful for one more round of SoM... but unless there are many changes and fixes (and a decent sale), I will rather play my original module.
Thanks for reading.
tl;dr.
dont carE you sound like a crybaby
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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments
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Date Posted: May 5, 2018 @ 10:57am
Posts: 7