The zoning problem

[DragonPunched]

zoners ♥♥♥♥ on the rest of the cast

[DragonPunched]

引用自 Comrade Hook：

Each players has different taste when it comes to fighting games.
Injustice 2 is fun game, but let`s be honest - It`s for casuals. Noobs if you prefer. There are skilled players and it feels good to be defeated by them, rather than playing against beam / teleport spam. As i said before, if noob can beat skilled player, then something is wrong with the game.
MKX is same story. Players spam rockets, laser and other special attacks, but they also know many combos and long combos. In 7/10 cases when i played Injustice 2 Online, players haven`t used any combos longer than 2 moves and that`s sad. Injustice 2 has lack of combos in general.
Played SFIV long time ago and it was bad. Same power spam, same style for all characters, but it does prioritize close combat.
I can`t justify those who are defending Injustice 2 power spam style and can only think that most of them have no skills in fighting games at all. Supergirl fans probably, since she`s the most spamming character together with Darkseid.
NRS need to change many thinks to make their games fighting, instead of arena shooters.

See ive been in the FGC for a while. Heck i have 6 thousand hours of killerinstinct on windows/xbox 1

[in memoriam of Sharky]

引用自 Comrade Hook：

Each players has different taste when it comes to fighting games.
Injustice 2 is fun game, but let`s be honest - It`s for casuals. Noobs if you prefer. There are skilled players and it feels good to be defeated by them, rather than playing against beam / teleport spam. As i said before, if noob can beat skilled player, then something is wrong with the game.
MKX is same story. Players spam rockets, laser and other special attacks, but they also know many combos and long combos. In 7/10 cases when i played Injustice 2 Online, players haven`t used any combos longer than 2 moves and that`s sad. Injustice 2 has lack of combos in general.
Played SFIV long time ago and it was bad. Same power spam, same style for all characters, but it does prioritize close combat.
I can`t justify those who are defending Injustice 2 power spam style and can only think that most of them have no skills in fighting games at all. Supergirl fans probably, since she`s the most spamming character together with Darkseid.
NRS need to change many thinks to make their games fighting, instead of arena shooters.

I agree about that this game is very causal friendly . The move list are short the inputs are simplified, lots of safe move thanks to its range etc. But I disagree about that a skilled player can be beaten by noobs spamming projectiles and specials thats not true. Its usually the scrubs who think they are skilled while loosing against "spamming" while its the clear proof than they are not skilled enough. If the skill level difference is small between the two player than it might happen than the one using character with better projectiles will win. But a noob will never shine in this game plaiyng against a skilled player. Maybe I am wrong so could you link me a video where at a tournament a noob beat a top player?

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

引用自 Comrade Hook：

Haven`t played KI or FGC so i can`t judge how much skills they require.

FGC stands for "Fighting Games Community"

[Uncle Ruckus]

引用自 FlyingTorpedoWhale：

引用自 Comrade Hook：

Haven`t played KI or FGC so i can`t judge how much skills they require.

FGC stands for "Fighting Games Community"

Ok. I see.

[Leah]

The moment you claim that button spamming can win against a skilled opponent in injustice you lose every credibility. You may say it might be frustrating for new players to avoid all the zoning and projectiles but that's about it.

[Beatmasterfresh]

引用自 Sir Snipeington：

The moment you claim that button spamming can win against a skilled opponent in injustice you lose every credibility. You may say it might be frustrating for new players to avoid all the zoning and projectiles but that's about it.

Yup! Dealing with zoning is one of badges to earning your "skilled" status. To effectively zone a skilled player will usually end up getting yourself punished...unless you are a "skilled" zoner.

[DragonPunched]

引用自 Legarian310：

引用自 Sir Snipeington：

The moment you claim that button spamming can win against a skilled opponent in injustice you lose every credibility. You may say it might be frustrating for new players to avoid all the zoning and projectiles but that's about it.

Yup! Dealing with zoning is one of badges to earning your "skilled" status. To effectively zone a skilled player will usually end up getting yourself punished...unless you are a "skilled" zoner.

i never made this comment

[Leah]

I was referring to the other guy. For you i still have the same advice: forward forward + meter burn to close in on enemies. If you lose against a zoner constantly without getting close you would have most likely also lost in close combat with him.

[DragonPunched]

引用自 Sir Snipeington：

I was referring to the other guy. For you i still have the same advice: forward forward + meter burn to close in on enemies. If you lose against a zoner constantly without getting close you would have most likely also lost in close combat with him.

im playing scarecrow those are 2 very diffrent stories
ive also been part of the FGC for years and ff+mb dosnt work when uc ant even startup a dash

[King Hadu]

Funny how Sonic Fox never cries about Zoning and still wins against zoners, proof that Zoning is a non issue.

[DragonPunched]

引用自 King Hadu：

Funny how Sonic Fox never cries about Zoning and still wins against zoners, proof that Zoning is a non issue.

Funny how the tier list has all zoners as top tier. Funny how a pro learns to handle the situation and is better then the vast majority of skille dplayers whos opinions should also be taken into account if there is a mass consensus

[Leah]

引用自 Comrade Hook：

引用自 Sir Snipeington：

The moment you claim that button spamming can win against a skilled opponent in injustice you lose every credibility. You may say it might be frustrating for new players to avoid all the zoning and projectiles but that's about it.

I would like to see a video with you against few Darkseid and Supergirl spammers and by spammers i mean power spammers, not "button spammers".
Also three questions. Who exactly is your "main", how "skilled" you are and which fighting games you played (better than noob)?

引用自 Sharky：

I agree about that this game is very causal friendly . The move list are short the inputs are simplified, lots of safe move thanks to its range etc. But I disagree about that a skilled player can be beaten by noobs spamming projectiles and specials thats not true. Its usually the scrubs who think they are skilled while loosing against "spamming" while its the clear proof than they are not skilled enough. If the skill level difference is small between the two player than it might happen than the one using character with better projectiles will win. But a noob will never shine in this game plaiyng against a skilled player. Maybe I am wrong so could you link me a video where at a tournament a noob beat a top player?

On my second day i played against Flash player . Gap between our skills was big. He knew some moves, specials, he was fast (no sarcasm). I played very bad and i`m still bad at it tbh. Have learned only one combo and used few powers. I lost of course and then we selected different characters. He chosed Captain Cold and i chosed Deadshot, since i spent a bit more time with him. I spammed with 3 of DS powers and won without any discomfort. He tried to jump and duck, but that didn`t saved him. When his health bar had health for 1 shot - he disconnected.
That wouldn`t work in games like Tekken.

As in case above, i would like to see some of your matches against Darkseid and Supergirl, if possible and ask you same questions: Who exactly is your "main", how "skilled" you are and which fighting games you played (better than noob)?

My current main is Black Canary but i started to toy around with supergirl because i want to understand her... well "mains" i just leveled them both to lvl 20 but i'm getting a bit of insight into supergirl lately, not sure what has to do with anything but i can offer some insight because what you wrote confuses me:

Supergirl is NOT a zoning character (What is a "power spammer" ???), her Teleport is VERY unsafe against good or even mediocre players if they don't do thte "back" to block movement from other beatemups, the block frames are terrible on the ability and you basically get a free combo in the face if you do it to much.
Her B ability recharges fairly slow so you can't spam it either way, the other ranged thing she has is the meter burned frost breath which is a joke in zoning as it is very slow and can be blocked, most people use it when they cancel an opening to chain it into a longer combo, but definitely not for zoning. She has tools against zoning but even those are limited, play her against someone somewhat competent then you understand, her zoning game is a joke.

Deadshot is a zoner, so is doctor fate, but they pay for this with inferior abilities in other areas, zoning is not abusing it is part of the game and you have to learn how to counter it. Here's the big difference, someone with a B meter that exhausts can be simply blocked until he's out. Against supergirl you can do that, thats why she can't control the engagement range. Deadshot has a ton of ranged moves that are not tied to b but he has trouble closing ranges himself (unlike Supergirl) and he's fairly slow.

I say this, if you end up face to face with a deadshot and you have a good brawler like black canary and your skilllevel would be the same black canary wins more often than not. The amount of damage it takes you to GET to him though probably balances it out again.

From experience I'm fairly sure that most people who complain about zoners never played them themselves and grossly underestimate how hard they are to play fairly quick, (i don't play zoning characters, dont like it).

You can choose to validate your excuses with "facts" and anecdotes because of 1 game like you described, or you can literally "git gud" by studying the things you have trouble against.

Go into practice mode, record with deadshot his constant shoot animation for 3 times, double dash back, rinse repeat then play against that and practice. If you refuse to do that and still complain then you have no place in the game's PvP area anyway, because the ♥♥♥♥ you have to learn to be really good goes FAR beyond that, knowning popular openeres, mix ups, and how they follow up from each character.
Supergirl is another great example, she's relatively easy to learn but the problem with that is, she's easy to predict once you play against her.
Block my combos High / Low and you essentially disabled 50% of my openers. Or wait for the overcommited Teleport, block it, then grab or start a combo and make her suffer. I'm not saying this to criticize you i'm just telling you that beyond the first hill of excuses and balancing problems you "think" you see there's a ton of fun to be had and that most likely you're wrong.

To your anecdote with captain frost: well if you're both so new to the game that this works it's up to you wether you want to be a ♥♥♥♥ for winning's sake. You got some internetpoints but probably also learned nothing from that game, people like that Frost are the ones that are coming back into the forum and make threads like this.

You have to realize one thing though. You can "master" shooting straight with deadshot in about 5 minutes of playing the game, i could probably teach it my mother. And even a pro cannot shoot faster because it's one spammed move, the skillceiling is non existent of that move and you reach maximum "efficiency" relatively quick. Everything else, like zoning, closing in, combos etc. etc. have an extremely high skill ceiling and you can improve a ton whereas pretty soon you will beat my mom (figuratively speaking). If spamming moves would be efficient beyond the very first stages of learning this game, pros would do it, believe me. They don't.

[Leah]

Tl,dr:

*Choose:*

1. Become better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCRmnAG0iiw

2. Rage and keep posting


Bonus:

Learn the difference between spamming and zoning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK-ua75C5cs

[Beatmasterfresh]

Zoning can be frustrating but if you really hate zoners, get good with Cheetah. She can close full screen in a single action, multiple ways. Purposely wiffing her dive move is actually a great way to get a free meter burn roll if used tight...then bam you are in their face.

Very satisfying when a zoner thinks "hell yeah! Got my distance back and proje-"

"Crap cheetah is right there again!"

[Leah]

引用自 Comrade Hook：

Wow. Salty guy telling me to rage. Can`t even share your own videos. Gud

I didn't mean you, i say in general you can either complain about it or try to learn. If you just want to pick an argument do it with someone else, i typed a long response to give you a proper answer. It doesn't matter wether i'm ♥♥♥♥ or good, doesn't change anything about the facts outside.