Losing On the First Quest Every Time Isn't Fun

[Energist]

It doesn't help that the cancerous saving system sets me back half an hour each attempt.

It seems like I'm going into each fight with a coin toss of survival and my coin is unlucky.

the Fort is full of groups of enemies. The last attempt, I got to the final room and pulled some dude with 4 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dogs. What am I expected to do against those odds with no skills, no equipment, no items?

Stealth doesn't seem to be a thing. Enemies see me from half the screen away.

I'm all for hard games, but when I have no options other than to exchange blows, this kind of asymmetry is retarded.

[Btoad]

if u want symphathy u can have some but theres tons of guides and info out there so try to check them out if u want to unravel more of the story of STONE SHARD.

[Energist]

Originally posted by Rink:

if u want symphathy u can have some but theres tons of guides and info out there so try to check them out if u want to unravel more of the story of STONE SHARD.

I have sympathy for the developers, who have a mixed review score, because they can't balance the level 1 experience properly. It seems like a well made and lovingly crafted game. It would be really nice to get past the first quest to see what the game is about.

Plenty of hard games out there with good review scores because they don't sodomize the player at 5 minutes out of the game.

Can anyone answer the question or is it really a game about following guides to optimize strategies at level 1?

I have no gold, no gear, no skills, no helpers. I'm level 1, and the game expects me to take on 2 to 5 enemies in one pull.

[Btoad]

u start of as a lvl 1 goon just like the people u face, what do u expect to win in a fair fight? 50% is pretty fair if u ask me, U want higher chances? CHEAT! Nobody said war is fair and you don't start of as a young hero unlike most adventure games. Am I wrong?

[Energist]

Originally posted by Rink:

u start of as a lvl 1 goon just like the people u face, what do u expect to win in a fair fight? 50% is pretty fair if u ask me, U want higher chances? CHEAT! Nobody said war is fair and you don't start of as a young hero unlike most adventure games. Am I wrong?

No you're not. Which begs the question why the developers would put you in coin toss odds when you don't have the ability to "cheat".

"Cheating" requires affording an advantage, or knowing options.

I'm as you say, some goon, with a few coins, wearing rags, and using a peasant's spear.

Somehow, I'm expected to take out an entire fortress of enemies by myself, in that state.

[|Revenge|]

You should try and force 1v1 as much as possible, even if its just for a few turns before one more dude catches up to you.

The best way to learn this game is to watch somebody else play it lol, go see someone do a dungeon at level 1, it'll help ya.

[hottnova75]

I make the same mistake even after four hundred hours of playing. You have to watch your fatigue and armor, or you will lose the boss fight. Sometimes its best to make more than one trip to defeat a dungeon.... You have to go back with a load of loot first, restore armor and fatigue, eat something and regain sanity. THEN you go back and finish the dungeon with full strength. Every fight takes it out of you. And when you forget to resupply and heal, you really ♥♥♥♥ yourself over. Especially in the mini boss fights. Go back and SAVE before the mini boss fight. And the reason there are hard games is so you can learn and do better next time hopefully. You can win, but you have to be smart about it.

[artofwar]

You're not wrong that the initial learning curve is very high. But once you get over that curve, the early game is no longer a coin flip.

To me, that's part of the enjoyment. The initial struggle made the fact that I can now consistently win a lot more satisfying.

Would the game be more successful if the devs made the game more accessible by lowering the barrier to entry? Maybe so, but I'm not positive, as the game seems to have built a cult following despite it's quirks and the mixed reviews.

At any rate, the game is actually very manageable once you learn how the systems work. Whether you want to put in the time to overcome the initial barrier is up to you, but I personally think it's well worth the effort.

[Zeel Ara]

It's okay; not everyone likes this kind of game. You're not obligated to have fun with something that doesn't match your personal taste. Simply go play something else.

[Energist]

Originally posted by Moffle:

It's okay; not everyone likes this kind of game. You're not obligated to have fun with something that doesn't match your personal taste. Simply go play something else.

Not helpful

It's obvious from reviews that this game has a problem. Plenty of great hard games out there with positive review scores. Dismissing those concerns as me just not being a fit for the community means you'll be talking to yourself eventually.

[Energist]

Originally posted by |Revenge|:

You should try and force 1v1 as much as possible, even if its just for a few turns before one more dude catches up to you.

The best way to learn this game is to watch somebody else play it lol, go see someone do a dungeon at level 1, it'll help ya.

Good to know.

I just beat that Fortress by abusing the AI. I stood near the doorway, kited them, tried to kill one at a time, exited, and came back when I was healed.

For the record, that's not a fun way to play. Sad that I had to resort to that. I figured they would follow me out like they do across map tiles, but exploits seem to be the name of the game so I'm glad that worked.

[artofwar]

Originally posted by Energist:

Originally posted by |Revenge|:

You should try and force 1v1 as much as possible, even if its just for a few turns before one more dude catches up to you.

The best way to learn this game is to watch somebody else play it lol, go see someone do a dungeon at level 1, it'll help ya.

Good to know.

I just beat that Fortress by abusing the AI. I stood near the doorway, kited them, tried to kill one at a time, exited, and came back when I was healed.

For the record, that's not a fun way to play. Sad that I had to resort to that. I figured they would follow me out like they do across map tiles, but exploits seem to be the name of the game so I'm glad that worked.

Once you gain more experience, that kind of cheese will not be necessary (or only very rarely necessary if you are doing a permadeath run).

[Energist]

Originally posted by artofwar:

Originally posted by Energist:

Good to know.

I just beat that Fortress by abusing the AI. I stood near the doorway, kited them, tried to kill one at a time, exited, and came back when I was healed.

For the record, that's not a fun way to play. Sad that I had to resort to that. I figured they would follow me out like they do across map tiles, but exploits seem to be the name of the game so I'm glad that worked.

Once you gain more experience, that kind of cheese will not be necessary (or only very rarely necessary if you are doing a permadeath run).

I'd assume so. That and knowing what my options are might help too. I just think it's weird the game starts new players off with the expectation of doing that as the very first quest.

Without exploiting the game, that wasn't going to happen, and I'm not really a guide follower. I like to figure games out. Maybe, if I keep playing, I'll learn something to help me with that in the future, as I expect I'll be dying again shortly lmao. Any game that gives players the finger this early on is out for vengeance.

[Btoad]

Energist u need to be patient and take every encounter as if it could be your last. You try to face hug your way thru hordes of monsters when your energy and health is restored ur asking for defeat. Try ranged combat to supplement your early melee. Use traps, choke points, and pre buffing like they do in the Witcher games. Later on u get magic potions that will help ye even more. Its hard but its fun if u prep and prep some more sometimes.

[Energist]

Originally posted by Rink:

Energist u need to be patient and take every encounter as if it could be your last. You try to face hug your way thru hordes of monsters when your energy and health is restored ur asking for defeat.

Well thanks. Energy never came into question. Just health. I don't have many ways to spend energy yet.

I did my best to take my time, but pulling one enemy routinely meant pulling a group of them. The dogs, especially, brought everyone with them due to their barking.

Not really sure what I could have done differently other than exploit the AI. Maybe I could have spent my 2 points more optimally, or maybe there is a specific set of items I could buy, but all of that is meta knowledge that, as a new player, I don't have. Maybe I'm wrong but, I don't think I should need to follow an optimization guide to beat the first quest of the game.

Is there stealth in this game? Enemies saw me pretty much as soon as I saw them.

Only 35% of all players have beaten the first quest according to my steam achievement. That's a bad sign. lol

[BeheadThoseWhoInsultKane]

Originally posted by Energist:

Can anyone answer the question or is it really a game about following guides to optimize strategies at level 1?

I'll try because this forums is one of the worst elitist jerks since i've been on world of warcraft arena forums.

Originally posted by Energist:

It doesn't help that the cancerous saving system sets me back half an hour each attempt.

It seems like I'm going into each fight with a coin toss of survival and my coin is unlucky.

the Fort is full of groups of enemies. The last attempt, I got to the final room and pulled some dude with 4 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dogs. What am I expected to do against those odds with no skills, no equipment, no items?

Without hyper-optimizing (utilizing every bit that is available at 0th level in Osbrook) it is a bit like a coin toss of surviving the road to the first dungeon, the first dungeon and the returning to the town. It is envisioned as Premier Experience(tm) and probably will never change on purpose.

Never buy any food before first dungeon - that will save you money to survive later, there are plenty of food to find and you won't die of hunger.

What you can do to reduce time spent:
- save at the Mill, that will be a few tiles worth of time saved
- Craft the sleeping roll and use it before the dungeon or retreat from the dungeon after some time and save before the boss

What you can do to survive first dungeon:
- Get at least level 2 by the time you hit the gates of dungeon; ideal is 3, but it's a grind to get there and you kinda need money for repairs
- Bring healing tools: bandages, 1-2 splints, salves
- Buy caltrops or throwing net (or both)
- - Throw them on the boss
- Buy bottle of oil
- - Throw it on the boss
- Get the side weapon with highest damage from guard captain in the Osbrook. I prefer the 2h Axe. Some people run shield + 1h. Both are viable to clear the dungeon.
- - Hit enemies with the weapon; you don't need any abilities to clear the dungeon, only raw damage (unless it's like a dagger or ranged weapon). Abilities help but many of them do not need to be specced into specific weapon build - Seize the Initiative for example
- Run away if you face 2-3 or 4 opponents and reset
- Run away if you face boss with more than 1 goon in tow and reset

Even using all the tricks it's a coin toss if you execute correctly or die because you were overconfident
or boss just crit you while being in the net (+50% fumble chance) and stunned you for the turn, nullifying all prep you possibly could have taken because there is not enough damage now to kill him

The secret sauce that "everyone" smugposter that easily clears first dungeon utilizes on this forum is cheese - resetting the dungeon by running away (mobs will not chase because instance is self-contained), utilizing the knowledge of items that could help them that you do not know exist or do not know their usage yet, getting to 2-3 level before clearing, not running "weapon build" by speccing cookie cutter abilities, etc. The info that is available to the new player is just not enough to ensure 100% survival and it's on purpose. It's meant to simulate that no one will help you do your job and you learn it by doing.