Tell me about Spears.

[Pixel Peeper]

Thematically speaking, I like spears a lot. But I've been too afraid to try them in Stoneshard yet. I'm seeing some pretty huge drawbacks to them that scare me a little.

They take two hands, but have the same damage as one-handed swords, axes and maces.

While they are famous for their improved reach, you cannot use them to attack 2 tiles away here. Not unless you use abilities.

Which brings us to the next issue, and perhaps the one that scares me most of all. Spears are renowned for being easy to use. But in this game, for some unfathomable reason, they have severe Abilities Energy Cost penalties, on par with those for Two-handed Maces!

So, to keep enemies 2 tiles away and hurt them while they're stuck there, as seems to be this weapon's primary strategy... it's going to require spamming those abilities a lot, which is not easy due to the huge Energy Cost penalties.

Is that how you're supposed to play it? Grab Arna, give her 30 Willpower (for -45% Cooldowns and Energy Costs), 15 Vitality and a bunch of Energy recovery skills, 15 Perception, and go absolutely ham with abilities?

Or is that why there's a huge Energy Cost penalty on Spears? You can halve the cooldowns easily enough, in fact it's probably not even necessary given that some of them can be entirely negated, like Impaling Lunge's, or if you use Finisher to reset all of them. But the cost is still prohibitive due to the Costs penalty. -45% Energy Costs is just going to bring costs down to about 85%, still expensive enough that you couldn't spam them (hence using Arna with minus Energy Cost gear, to push the cost down even further).

I am overthinking this? Maybe people are just using more traditional, balanced builds and accepting the fact that you can't reasonably use abilities all the time.

Not having tried them yet, I don't have a firm grasp on how they play.

What is the consensus on Spear builds?

[Marcus#214]

Well, spears are more or less this:
Use skill, enemy is immobilized? Use the other skill for a free no cooldown second use.
Enemy is not immobilized? You can use skill to knockback him 1 square.
Also crits have +50% extra immobilization chance and with a passive you can deal up to a +60 extra dmg on crit.

There's a guide here on Steam about a spear build that will let you know a bit about how it works. Form me its a pretty good weapon choice in the game.

Have a good one.

[Mimung]

Warfares Setup

-10% energy costs

Warfares Opportune Moment enables energy from crits and counters

from crit
together with Offensive Tactics and nail downs innate higher cirt chance (RoT crit on skills, on the way to finisher anyways)
more crit with athletics no time to linger
more crit with spears stay back

from counter
9% counter from spears no retreat
more from spears regroup

spears determination

10% max energy per enemy hit for 2 turns
so avg 30% energy for 15% invest.
bc even if its only one you are facing determination debuffs move rez and u push back with nail down and the enemy enters again for another hit.
more crit from no time to linger
more crit fromtayback
more energy from opportunemoment
more enemys more energy

one playstyle that is special for spears:
your whitehits can knock back
so if an enemy enters you zone while determination e.g. chances are he his knocked back, so you receive no damage
the same goes for counters

so debuffing moveresist with e.g. electro is nothing to sneeze at ....

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Marcus#214:

Well, spears are more or less this:
Use skill, enemy is immobilized? Use the other skill for a free no cooldown second use.
Enemy is not immobilized? You can use skill to knockback him 1 square.
Also crits have +50% extra immobilization chance and with a passive you can deal up to a +60 extra dmg on crit.

There's a guide here on Steam about a spear build that will let you know a bit about how it works. Form me its a pretty good weapon choice in the game.

Have a good one.

Ah, the newbie guide? I did read that. It says it was updated late December so I'm assuming it's mostly up to date, aside from the images which show older versions of the skills.

Yes, it had the basics about as you're describing and as I imagined them. It really seems as basic as that... either push dudes back, Immobilize them 2 tiles away, and use more abilities to hurt them bad while they're in that unfortunate situation.

But ultimately, it's a newbie guide and doesn't go into a lot of details. I'm wondering about the Energy situation, and if it's really worth going into Strength. For me the more relevant choices seemed Willpower and, to some extent, Perception (those spear crits really are very nice). At first I was thinking 30 Perception and 20 Willpower, but I got spooked by the Energy costs and the availability of cooldowns when you need to be keeping stuff away and hitting it as much as possible. I figure the reduced costs and cooldowns from Willpower will generate more damage than Strength would, and do a better job at keeping things away.

But it's all theoretical for me.

Well, from your comment it seems you don't find it particularly difficult, so I'll take that as a positive review for spears.

Thanks.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

Perception (those spear crits really are very nice). At first I was thinking 30 Perception

read my post and ull see how true that is

since you forgo a lot of damage via cc
you can afford to wear crit and crit efficiency gear

also take note of the new custom adjustments buff of dodge for medium armor

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Mimung:

Warfares Setup

-10% energy costs

Warfares Opportune Moment enables energy from crits and counters

from crit
together with Offensive Tactics and nail downs innate higher cirt chance (RoT crit on skills, on the way to finisher anyways)
more crit with athletics no time to linger
more crit with spears stay back

from counter
9% counter from spears no retreat
more from spears regroup

spears determination

10% max energy per enemy hit for 2 turns
so avg 30% energy for 15% invest.
bc even if its only one you are facing determination debuffs move rez and u push back with nail down and the enemy enters again for another hit.
more enemys more energy

Hmm. I was planning on going mostly Warfare and Athletics (and Willpower is the stat that scales Energy skills like Opportune Moments (though obviously that one indirectly scales off Perception too), Inner Reserves and Push the Falling. But I wasn't giving Counter Chance much value given that I'm aiming to keep enemies away most of the time; if I'm doing it right, they're not going to be attacking me very often.

Determination and Finisher are great for Energy too.

Gonna have to make some tough choices regarding skills. 8 in Spears, 13 in Athletics, 6 in Warfare, 4 in Survival... that's all 31 points. There are more things I want, but I'm hesitant to move anything around.

[redhongkong]

i guess its more of a backup weapon that ranger use to finish off half health opponent while keeping them pushed back

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Mimung:

you can afford to wear crit and crit efficiency gear

also take note of the new custom adjustments buff of dodge for medium armor

100% wearing offensive gear, as much as I can. The way I survive is by keeping things away and killing them before they reach me. Complete control.

The 12% Dodge from Custom Adjustments is nice, though I'd tend to go either full Dodge or no Dodge. Not a fan of Medium armor. Not I could afford to go into that tree, anyway, I'm already short a few points for everything I want.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

Originally posted by Mimung:

Warfares Setup

-10% energy costs

Warfares Opportune Moment enables energy from crits and counters

from crit
together with Offensive Tactics and nail downs innate higher cirt chance (RoT crit on skills, on the way to finisher anyways)
more crit with athletics no time to linger
more crit with spears stay back

from counter
9% counter from spears no retreat
more from spears regroup

spears determination

10% max energy per enemy hit for 2 turns
so avg 30% energy for 15% invest.
bc even if its only one you are facing determination debuffs move rez and u push back with nail down and the enemy enters again for another hit.
more enemys more energy

Hmm. I was planning on going mostly Warfare and Athletics (and Willpower is the stat that scales Energy skills like Opportune Moments (though obviously that one indirectly scales off Perception too), Inner Reserves and Push the Falling. But I wasn't giving Counter Chance much value given that I'm aiming to keep enemies away most of the time; if I'm doing it right, they're not going to be attacking me very often.

Determination and Finisher are great for Energy too.

Gonna have to make some tough choices regarding skills. 8 in Spears, 13 in Athletics, 6 in Warfare, 4 in Survival... that's all 31 points. There are more things I want, but I'm hesitant to move anything around.

damn wrote an answer steam crashed.
so again.and again lol.

imho:

spears one at a time is weak
regroup and pikeman optional

dash/lunge are too good especially on spear
you dont need aditional cc and mobility from athletics
so 9 (all ultis)

warfare with armor crusher (important since block is double no no for spears) and setup so 7

survival rightside will to surviva and pathfinder agreed

brace for impact is very underrated imho

but you can skip self repair i think

seal of power with impulse will give u 20% more dmg and a powerful move resist debuff and knockback, in your case probably repeated knockback bc u debuff move resist anywho

with body and spirit at least 30% more dmg

with Jolt a puller, a murkstalker de-murker and 100% uptime on seal of power

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

Originally posted by Mimung:

you can afford to wear crit and crit efficiency gear

also take note of the new custom adjustments buff of dodge for medium armor

100% wearing offensive gear, as much as I can. The way I survive is by keeping things away and killing them before they reach me. Complete control.

The 12% Dodge from Custom Adjustments is nice, though I'd tend to go either full Dodge or no Dodge. Not a fan of Medium armor. Not I could afford to go into that tree, anyway, I'm already short a few points for everything I want.

id say with spear you go either strength will vit block with heavy armor
and more warfare minimal athletics ofc and armored combat

or hybrid with medium but u need custom adjustments

or perception agi with light armor dodge and counter

[Ellavina]

Face pointy end towards enemy

[Ellavina]

Finisher and adrenaline rush will give you lots of mana economy. Don't forget to take push the falling.

Opportune moment is good if you have enough Crit

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Mimung:

spears one at a time is weak
regroup and pikeman optional

dash/lunge are too good especially on spear
you dont need aditional cc and mobility from athletics
so 9 (all ultis)

warfare with armor crusher (important since block is double no no for spears) and setup so 7

survival rightside will to surviva and pathfinder agreed

brace for impact is very underrated imho

but you can skip self repair i think

seal of power with impulse will give u 20% more dmg and a powerful move resist debuff and knockback, in your case probably repeated knockback bc u debuff move resist anywho

with body and spirit at least 30% more dmg

with Jolt a puller, a murkstalker de-murker and 100% uptime on seal of power

One At a Time weak, really? It's a passive +10% Weapon Damage, +10% Immobilization Chance and +6% Crit, that sounds awesome to me. And Pikeman is ridiculously good, giving +20% Accuracy, +20% Bleed, an absolutely massive +60% Knockback Chance, and another +32% Immobilization Chance; easy to keep at IV stacks too, with a build that's all about spamming abilities.

I have to agree about Regroup, though. It's fantastic for one of those Counter builds but that's not at all what I'm going for. It's a precious point best spent elsewhere.

You're right about Setup too, it's really good for my build what with the +10% Accuracy and -10% Abilities Energy Cost, and even -10% Damage Taken (I will take damage sooner or later).

Still unsure how I'll be dealing with annoying ranged dudes, but I'll figure it out. Maybe Dash and Finisher will be enough, especially with Sprint Training.

Right now I'm looking at 7 Spears, 13 Athletics, 4 Survival and 7 Warfare.

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Ellavina:

Finisher and adrenaline rush will give you lots of mana economy. Don't forget to take push the falling.

Opportune moment is good if you have enough Crit

Definitely taking all that, it's good stuff.

For Opportune Moment, unfortunately my base Crit will be quite low, but with other skills it'll get high enough to get them frequently enough. And the Energy recovery from this skill scales with Willpower, of which I will have 25, so it should be effective (assuming it scales well, there's no way to know until you put points into stuff).

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

One At a Time weak, really? It's a passive +10% Weapon Damage, +10% Immobilization Chance and +6% Crit, that sounds awesome to me

it has a conditional and if its not a boss it is helping you win when you win anyways.
its greedy.

more isnt always more good.
a scenario has to be won, not ultra won;
an enemy just nonfactor not overkilled.

if u instead use the resource (SP) to gain security and consistency id always opt that.

moreover conditionals are either designed that they comfortably and automatically even out systemic spikes or you abide to their mechanics and have to integrate them into your play.

my verdict of pikeman comes from preferring to be mobile, but its biased i confess.
paired with determination and a spear with good knockback/immobilize it is strong.
but also note that neither lunge nor seize or finisher will provide stacks for it, infact i think they will deduct stacks and these are part of your rota.

i would test that if i were you.

damage reduction, DR, is the defining defensive stat for doge endgame.
so setup is indeed really good

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

Originally posted by Ellavina:

Finisher and adrenaline rush will give you lots of mana economy. Don't forget to take push the falling.

Opportune moment is good if you have enough Crit

Definitely taking all that, it's good stuff.

For Opportune Moment, unfortunately my base Crit will be quite low, but with other skills it'll get high enough to get them frequently enough. And the Energy recovery from this skill scales with Willpower, of which I will have 25, so it should be effective (assuming it scales well, there's no way to know until you put points into stuff).

id delay push the falling to late midgame. if u struggle with energy still u can still take it then.

Also, why set 25 will in stone now?

Perception and Agi and 15 will seems good to me