Ranged Weapon Players, how is your Midgame?

[Mimung]

I just wanna know how you are doing.

Heard here and there that Bow damage is lacklustre.
Many chose a crossbow or also rely on melee...

At lvl 11 im finally dishing 30ies every turn with my build and it seems okay.
I just notice im burning through arrows really quickly.
Also Bodkins -20% hurts too much because bow damage is super low to begin with.
Ranged seems to lack +% weapon damage modifiers or skills.
The +20% from take aim is actually -40% damage because u only shoot every second turn.


How is a standard "Take Aim" ranger fairing?

Cheers

[Psojed]

Not playing ranged atm.
You can always put points into STR which gives Weapon Damage by default as well as boosts your Take Aim bonus. There are damage boosting skills too, Warcry for example.

Another damage option is Bleeding.

Your comparison of damage is a bit flawed. -40% damage compared to what?
For example, if you compare to a melee build, you're dealing damage X turns before the melee player even starts attacking.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Psojed:

Not playing ranged atm.
You can always put points into STR which gives Weapon Damage by default as well as boosts your Take Aim bonus. There are damage boosting skills too, Warcry for example.

Another damage option is Bleeding.

Your comparison of damage is a bit flawed. -40% damage compared to what?
For example, if you compare to a melee build, you're dealing damage X turns before the melee player even starts attacking.

Compared to my build that shoots every turn...


that also gets +16% more weapon damage from body and spirit and +35% damage as lighting

before someone misunderstands im not complaining.
im really just wondering how normal take aim rangers are fairing this patch because my hunch is: not so well

[Psojed]

So you're spending turns to buff yourself with Seals or by casting an Electro spell. That's two Take Aims of a "standard" ranger :)

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Psojed:

So you're spending turns to buff yourself with Seals or by casting an Electro spell. That's two Take Aims of a "standard" ranger :)

two turns, seal of power and the electro spell debuffs ele rez, control rez and movement rez.
two turns is one take aim.

the buff turns are mostly out of combat and they last a while before rebuff.

you are not playing ranged atm...

i really would love to hear from people that do.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Psojed:

Not playing ranged atm.
You can always put points into STR which gives Weapon Damage by default as well as boosts your Take Aim bonus. There are damage boosting skills too, Warcry for example.

Another damage option is Bleeding.

Your comparison of damage is a bit flawed. -40% damage compared to what?
For example, if you compare to a melee build, you're dealing damage X turns before the melee player even starts attacking.

i mean we can also play the compare game and take a lvl7 joana dual wield seal of power:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3392005237

which is onehitting goons

[Psojed]

I played ranged every patch so far, don't worry :)

Originally posted by Mimung:

two turns, seal of power and the electro spell debuffs ele rez, control rez and movement rez.
two turns is one take aim.

Take Aim is one turn, so it's "buff - shoot - buff - shoot", and your buffing is "buff - electro - shoot - shoot", so it's two Take Aims, not one.

In the screenshot, I see a Fire Barrage and Flurry, so it's not onehitting. The next Goon takes 4 regular attacks. Ranged crit can oneshot a Goon, then oneshot another Goon :)

I'm sure you'll get some midgame Rangers' replies tomorrow.

[KnightSilver]

Originally posted by Mimung:

I just wanna know how you are doing.

Heard here and there that Bow damage is lacklustre.
Many chose a crossbow or also rely on melee...

At lvl 11 im finally dishing 30ies every turn with my build and it seems okay.
I just notice im burning through arrows really quickly.
Also Bodkins -20% hurts too much because bow damage is super low to begin with.
Ranged seems to lack +% weapon damage modifiers or skills.
The +20% from take aim is actually -40% damage because u only shoot every second turn.


How is a standard "Take Aim" ranger fairing?

Cheers

Alright so i myself havent really ever went with a bow build though i do know they're quite strong but i did have a crossbow as a secondary weapon in my 2h sword build so i can give one word of advice that should help you with just about everything. Try using the bow that gives bleed% and use broadhead arrows. This is what i started doing with my crossbow build with minimal ranged skills and it was such a life saver is made my life so much easier. Bleed is literally the most important debuff in the game and can instantly cause a low level goon or even a high level goon to either disengage or waste a turn bandaging that you can use to reapply that bleed. and the fun thing about it is the fact that if an enemy is bleeding and doesnt have a way to stop the bleed and no dash you just bleed them and then walk away and they'll just bleed out. imo bleed is an extremely under utilized debuff that not many people new to the game thing about which is strange because when hunting deer or saiga you literally do not have to hit the enemy hard at all, if you hit a deer for a 0 but still bleed it, all you have to do is follow it and you get a free pelt.

[KnightSilver]

also take aim is the most important skill in the game since before you have an actual good bow, the -accuracy penalty on alot of them are like extremely low, you can say that take aim is a damage penalty because your wasting a turn but early on until you have a tier 3+ bow with better ranged stats and skills take aim is a massive infinite damage boost since hitting and enemy once with an arrow is infinitely better than never hitting them.

[Rak]

I mean it's okay, I scored a 74 crit on the training dummy and I'm pretty sure I scored a 92 vs a low level bandit granted I'm already lvl 22 on my Dirwin run. Main advantage of ranged is well... the range, you can somewhat be stingy about your armor and focus on caravan upgrades first. As long as you have good positioning when taking fights you shouldn't really get hit a lot, distracting shot when it's relevant to keep distance better if you also have dash.

I never really struggled early/mid game they are easier vs melee builds, late game is different really hate enemy packs that camp closed doors, sometimes even if you shout they don't open it, they just sit on the other side waiting, the end result being, you bash the door with your arrows lol, not practical you will run out of ammo real quick and you can't really open those kinds of doors without some nets/traps otherwise you get an axe to the face or god forbid a double yagram pack plus with all the noise going on a 3rd yagram flanks you.

Being outside is different, even high tier bandits are no problem you can kite them to death you are outside after all, that said I'm still careful with the shield bro's especially the one with the sword that has 2 ways to close the distance quickly.

The Troll and Manticore are also harder imo can't really utilize take aim properly on those fights.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Rak:

I mean it's okay, I scored a 74 crit on the training dummy and I'm pretty sure I scored a 92 vs a low level bandit granted I'm already lvl 22 on my Dirwin run. Main advantage of ranged is well... the range, you can somewhat be stingy about your armor and focus on caravan upgrades first. As long as you have good positioning when taking fights you shouldn't really get hit a lot, distracting shot when it's relevant to keep distance better if you also have dash.

I never really struggled early/mid game they are easier vs melee builds, late game is different really hate enemy packs that camp closed doors, sometimes even if you shout they don't open it, they just sit on the other side waiting, the end result being, you bash the door with your arrows lol, not practical you will run out of ammo real quick and you can't really open those kinds of doors without some nets/traps otherwise you get an axe to the face or god forbid a double yagram pack plus with all the noise going on a 3rd yagram flanks you.

Being outside is different, even high tier bandits are no problem you can kite them to death you are outside after all, that said I'm still careful with the shield bro's especially the one with the sword that has 2 ways to close the distance quickly.

The Troll and Manticore are also harder imo can't really utilize take aim properly on those fights.

74 crit on training dummy with what? long shot? head shot? take aim?

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Psojed:

I played ranged every patch so far, don't worry :)

Originally posted by Mimung:

two turns, seal of power and the electro spell debuffs ele rez, control rez and movement rez.
two turns is one take aim.

Take Aim is one turn, so it's "buff - shoot - buff - shoot", and your buffing is "buff - electro - shoot - shoot", so it's two Take Aims, not one.

In the screenshot, I see a Fire Barrage and Flurry, so it's not onehitting. The next Goon takes 4 regular attacks. Ranged crit can oneshot a Goon, then oneshot another Goon :)

I'm sure you'll get some midgame Rangers' replies tomorrow.

brother

you need 2 turns per shot with take aim

i need 1 turn per shot

double

[Rak]

Originally posted by Mimung:

Originally posted by Rak:

I mean it's okay, I scored a 74 crit on the training dummy and I'm pretty sure I scored a 92 vs a low level bandit granted I'm already lvl 22 on my Dirwin run. Main advantage of ranged is well... the range, you can somewhat be stingy about your armor and focus on caravan upgrades first. As long as you have good positioning when taking fights you shouldn't really get hit a lot, distracting shot when it's relevant to keep distance better if you also have dash.

I never really struggled early/mid game they are easier vs melee builds, late game is different really hate enemy packs that camp closed doors, sometimes even if you shout they don't open it, they just sit on the other side waiting, the end result being, you bash the door with your arrows lol, not practical you will run out of ammo real quick and you can't really open those kinds of doors without some nets/traps otherwise you get an axe to the face or god forbid a double yagram pack plus with all the noise going on a 3rd yagram flanks you.

Being outside is different, even high tier bandits are no problem you can kite them to death you are outside after all, that said I'm still careful with the shield bro's especially the one with the sword that has 2 ways to close the distance quickly.

The Troll and Manticore are also harder imo can't really utilize take aim properly on those fights.

74 crit on training dummy with what? long shot? head shot? take aim?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3392030168

There you go, take aim and long shot.

[Robolaser]

Lvl 13 Velmir with lever crossbow here. +4 strength, +7 perception (1 spare SP).

It felt quite underwhelming at first, like you and for the same reasons i was reluctant to use taking aim, but turns out never missing a shot compensates for the extra turn. And then there's the damage bonus. Along with warcry, i also took longshot and pathfinder.

I spam "examine surroundings" to spot enemies from afar. Then get the closest one just into my vison range, lure him with shout for safety if necessary, and then open the fight with longshot. At 12 range that first shot never misses and the cummulative bonuses give it quite a punch:

- pathfinder already applied +10% damage taken and -5% dodge to the target
- take aim give +64% acc and +18% dmg
- spot weakness passive give +5% pen and applies -5% phys resist.
- constant practice passive halves the acc penaly after mid range
- long shot give + 69% dmg, +62% pen, +105% bp dmg

Light/unarmored targets often die on the spot. Better protected ones are usually heavily injured, confused and sometimes bleeding, so i can finish them off before they get into melee range. If i accidentaly attract a large group, warcry gives me a few extra turns to retreat to a better defensive position. Last ditch is traps + long flail.

Quite happy with that simple early build for now. I like the reliability and relative saftey, also the low maintenance cost. It's a bit slow, but i don't mind.

Next i'll test adding hard target, dissipation, dexterity, distracting shot or dash, and once at 20 perception maybe seal of cleansing (the +33% dmg area effect is modified by +range).

[MasterWaffle]

Had no issues until late game.

[lasteldar]

Very simple, with a RoT and Maces tree combo and mostly AGI over PER. RoT dmg scales with skills taken from weapon trees so invest in Ranged tree helps, but actually you only need two skills there Take Aim and Dexterity.
The main design problem with the Ranged tree that its need too many investments like it's your main weapon. But from a gameplay perspective bow is only an secondary option, something like staffs tree for mages.
Devs should have redone the shooting tree to fit that reality a long time ago and actually early build tree fit secondary weapon role a much better than what we have now.