Janna new trait explanation?

[Poki]

"Grants +5% Power of the corresponding School and +5% Miracle Potency for each unique magic treatise in the Inventory."

What exactly are "unique magic treatises"?
These are just the books that you learn the spells from? So having Pyromantic Treatises I, II, III and IV willl increase my pyro power by 20% and random ones from other schools will grant me miracle potency?

This is kinda vague, I wish the game explained better.

[funkmonster7]

Originalmente postado por Vidus:

Originalmente postado por money3030:

Nope best Nuker to exist Jonna, simply because you can get 60% Miracle Potency atm eh not sure on Magic Mastery books yet but Venomancy coming would make that sure 80% Miracle Potency.

To do that almost all your cargo space need to be books, It work to kill a Boss but not to rest. And you need Lucky to find all books

You can buy 6 out of the 12 books, finding T3/T4 magic books is really not that hard. It can be a grind sure, but it really isn't hard. You don't need +60% miracle potency either. Old Jonna was already slaying everything left right and center. The Arcane Lore nerf only dropped miracle potency down to half per Sorcery spell learned, meaning you only lost around 13% miracle potency. You can make up that difference with 3 books, let alone 6.

Besides, Elec mage doesn't even need miracle potency. That amount of CC means nothing can get close to you. All miracle potency does is make you kill quicker.

[brown29knight]

Originalmente postado por funkmonster7:

Originalmente postado por Vidus:

So, is even Hilda a better mage now? +8% max energy, -10% spells energy cost and + 15% magic power in just 2 cargo space ....

Out of all the pure mages:

Jonna mage = best 30 Prc nuker
Mahir mage = best maneuverable/mobile mage (you can learn more escape skills unlike Jonna)
Leo mage = not good as a pure mage, but can work - melee/magic counterattack build
Hilda mage = decent all-rounder mage (+10% magic power, -10% cooldowns durations bone charm buffs)

Given how Tier 4 Pyro and Elec passives work, Jonna is hands down the best pure mage just because she can kill anything before the latter even blinks. How to counter Magehunter? 4 AP into Geomancy works - up to Boulder Toss: throw that rock at Magehunter = dead Magehunter.

Also, inventory space is never a problem. I have to sacrifice a cloak for what, +60% miracle potency? That is a small price to pay. Mages don't need much healing supplies anyway, not especially when you're Jonna. You also have no real need for loot, since you're not repairing much of anything.

A few other points:

You do not need to go all in on the miracle potency. Just use the books from your school, and you get 20% school power, as well as 20% miracle potency. The 20% school power is actually the bigger bonus to your damage. as it multiplies with magic power, to get your base damage, THEN multiplies again with miracle potency. 4 books is the same space as the conquest of the hills tapestry.

Also, do not forget that every sorcery book she reads lowers backfire chance. That is huge. That means Jonna needs no backfire specific gear whatsoever come endgame. It also means you can buy backfire reductions in Mannshire and Brynn whenever you have spare gold. Therefore she can gear much more aggressively than other mages,

As to other mages, Dirwin also gets a nod as an explorer/hunter mage. His extra AP is only useful for taking more of the survival tree (which, admittedly is not bad for reducing fatigue and getting extra money) But his extra attribute points allow you to end with 30 Perception/24 Willpower. With the Arcane lore nerf, cooldown reduction and spell energy cost are more important, so those extra points in willpower help a lot. In addition, he winds up with a near 80% chance to get pelts regardless of damage type used by endgame, making him the most effective hunter-mage, period. Niche pick, but worth noting.

Originalmente postado por funkmonster7:

Originalmente postado por Vidus:

To do that almost all your cargo space need to be books, It work to kill a Boss but not to rest. And you need Lucky to find all books

You can buy 6 out of the 12 books, finding T3/T4 magic books is really not that hard. It can be a grind sure, but it really isn't hard. You don't need +60% miracle potency either. Old Jonna was already slaying everything left right and center. The Arcane Lore nerf only dropped miracle potency down to half per Sorcery spell learned, meaning you only lost around 13% miracle potency. You can make up that difference with 3 books, let alone 6.

Besides, Elec mage doesn't even need miracle potency. That amount of CC means nothing can get close to you. All miracle potency does is make you kill quicker.

Miracle potency was lowered from 2% per skill to 1% per skill, including magic mastery. For most full mages, this was a 26% Miracle potency loss, as well as a 13% cooldown, 13% spell cost, and 13% magic power loss.

3 books will make up the spell power difference, but you will need 5 books to replace the miracle potency loss.

This patch was a nerf to mages in general. (they needed it) Jonna can compensate a little with her new trait, but she lost her old trait too, so factoring that in, Old Jonna was stronger than new Jonna, but new Jonna is still the strongest current mage.


1 final point: Miracle potency is capped at 150%. I was able to get to that cap with 2 books and end game gear*. Hordes of books will not help you.


*That end game gear was pre-January nerf, you may need 5-6 books to get to cap now, but that would be max. Gearing for Miracle chance/potency with non-unique items now puts you at 125% Potency, so 5 books. Some uniques offer better potency, but others offer better chance at cost of potency, so you could wind up needing more (or less) than 5 to hit cap with some builds.

The idea that you would need 12 books though, is just ridiculous.

[funkmonster7]

Originalmente postado por brown29knight:

Miracle potency was lowered from 2% per skill to 1% per skill, including magic mastery. For most full mages, this was a 26% Miracle potency loss, as well as a 13% cooldown, 13% spell cost, and 13% magic power loss.

Oh yeah I messed up the calculations a bit. My bad.

But all things considered, the 20% spell power more than makes up for it. I think?

It is a good nerf imo. Both me and you knew miracle mage had to be nerfed a bit. 13% magic power loss was of little consequence, same as the spell energy cost, the cooldown nerf was a much bigger issue but at least that gives Willpower mages an edge so I see it as a good thing. All that's left imo is some melee-magic hybrid gear instead of whatever we have right now.

[funkmonster7]

Dang, miracle potency finally got a cap eh. It used to have no cap iirc. Which is fair considering crit eff has a cap of 150% too.

[brown29knight]

Originalmente postado por funkmonster7:

Originalmente postado por brown29knight:

Miracle potency was lowered from 2% per skill to 1% per skill, including magic mastery. For most full mages, this was a 26% Miracle potency loss, as well as a 13% cooldown, 13% spell cost, and 13% magic power loss.

Oh yeah I messed up the calculations a bit. My bad.

But all things considered, the 20% spell power more than makes up for it. I think?

It is a good nerf imo. Both me and you knew miracle mage had to be nerfed a bit. 13% magic power loss was of little consequence, same as the spell energy cost, the cooldown nerf was a much bigger issue but at least that gives Willpower mages an edge so I see it as a good thing. All that's left imo is some melee-magic hybrid gear instead of whatever we have right now.

The 20%(School specific) power (assuming you carry 4 books) does not make up for the loss of Jonnah's old trait AND 1/2 of old arcane lore, no. It makes up most of it, but Jonna still winds up weaker in the end. It IS important to note that in the current meta, 20% School specific power > 20% magic power. Not by much, 1-2%, depending on your exact build, but every bit helps. And yes, Arcane lore did need a nerf. (or a complete rewrite, I had some cool ideas on that.) I can know something is fair and needed, and still grumble about it.

The magic power nerfs are starting to add up. If it is nerfed much more, electromancer will actually become unplayable. The reason for this, is you need enough magic power to reasonably proc resonance on foes. If it tips below that critical threshold, then all your spell effects start to fail, and foes slaughter you before you can do anything. Pyromancers are already seeing this with burning, as I keep hearing people complain about how hard it is to set foes on fire consistently. Good news is that their kit is not as reliant on burning as electromancers are with resonance. I think it is in a good place after this last round of nerfs. If mages are still too strong, looking at backfire mechanics, cooldowns, or spell costs should be priority instead.

There are actually some interesting unique items out there right now. Look at the wiki's staves and gloves. Both have new uniques for mages/hybrids.

[xl0e]

Originalmente postado por funkmonster7:

But all things considered, the 20% spell power more than makes up for it. I think?

No. It does not.
There is a second layer to Arcane Lore debuff everybody (devs included) missed. Namely, Arcane Lore works in tandem with Thaumaturgy passive from Magic Mastery. With Thaumaturgy learned miracles reduce active spells' cooldowns by 1. It means the higher your miracle chance is, the more frequent your casts are, and the more damage per turn your character has (it is important in Tier4-5 dungeons). Then again those more frequent casts has chance to become miracles and decrease cooldowns. Also with Thaumaturgy miracles lower enemies' Magic and Nature Resistances for 5 turns.

Old Arcane Lore's Miracle Chance buff allowed Thaumaturgy to create positive feedback loop. This possibility pretty much gone now. Buffs to Magic Power(s) and Miracle Potency will not bring it back - you need +10-15% Miracle Chance.

[brown29knight]

Originalmente postado por xl0e:

Originalmente postado por funkmonster7:

But all things considered, the 20% spell power more than makes up for it. I think?

No. It does not.
There is a second layer to Arcane Lore debuff everybody (devs included) missed. Namely, Arcane Lore works in tandem with Thaumaturgy passive from Magic Mastery. With Thaumaturgy learned miracles reduce active spells' cooldowns by 1. It means the higher your miracle chance is, the more frequent your casts are, and the more damage per turn your character has (it is important in Tier4-5 dungeons). Then again those more frequent casts has chance to become miracles and decrease cooldowns. Also with Thaumaturgy miracles lower enemies' Magic and Nature Resistances for 5 turns.

Old Arcane Lore's Miracle Chance buff allowed Thaumaturgy to create positive feedback loop. This possibility pretty much gone now. Buffs to Magic Power(s) and Miracle Potency will not bring it back - you need +10-15% Miracle Chance.

Arcane lore did not give miracle chance since RtR was released last year. At that time, Thaumaturgy did not lower cooldowns, it lowered backfire chance. So the "positive feedback loop" you are talking about never existed. Both were changed at the same time.

Once RtR was released, Arcane Lore only buffed the POTENCY of miracles. Not the chance. That was when Thaumaturgy was changed to allow cooldown of spells per miracle.

The more recent nerf to Arcane lore, the one Funkmonster7 was talking about, simply cut all of its bonuses in half.