Best builds for permadeath?

[TheRussianTanker]

Been playing as DW Axe dwarf and Im startin' to regret it.

Wanna chech outer weapons - suggestions?

[Elder Borjoyzee]

Spears are consistently strong and easy imo. I don't remember if they nerfed Arna or not, but choosing her + having her learn spears from the guard in the barracks (request a spear too) is solid. You can also do skinning with spears, so going down the skinning skill tree isn't a bad choice (especially since the two bosses in the game count as beasts, more damage and accuracy towards beasts). Spears are also good against spiders last time I checked, so if you accidentally wander into spiders early and get netted, you might have a chance against them (they're easy to knockback and immobilize, pikeman stance gives your attacks both of those).

[funkmonster7]

Don't play DW for permadeath mode. This is my advice as a DW expert...

Play sword/shield, but use a light or medium shield. Crossbow as your secondary weapon, no need to learn any Ranged Weapons skills, just use bodkin bolts.

Spear can work too, but you just want to rely more on that crossbow to deal with anything that hits you from outside your range.

Other weapons work as well with shield, but sword is probably the best. Every weapon has a block power coefficient, sword has the highest block power coefficient. Mace in particular is good for all the dazes and stuns, good synergy with shield skills. Axe doesn't synergize that well with shield compared to mace and sword. Same with dagger, but when you use a dagger you will rely more on using a light shield and dodging, with block just being a safety net for when you can't dodge.

2h sword also works very well, being a counterattack build with a Heroic Charge. Charge attacks are good because you can engage with an enemy on approach. When certain enemies get them eventually (level 10+), you will be at a disadvantage when you get charged. This is when spear falls off a bit, since you will almost always eat an attack first before you start attacking. (This is where sword/shield shines; Onrush has the longest range out of all weaponry charge attack skills.)

Mage is also very solid for permadeath since you will kill almost anything before they can get into melee range to hit you. And anything else that outranges you, just shoot them with a crossbow.

[brown29knight]

Originally posted by funkmonster7:

2h sword also works very well, being a counterattack build with a Heroic Charge. Charge attacks are good because you can engage with an enemy on approach. When certain enemies get them eventually (level 10+), you will be at a disadvantage when you get charged. This is when spear falls off a bit, since you will almost always eat an attack first before you start attacking. (This is where sword/shield shines; Onrush has the longest range out of all weaponry charge attack skills.)

This is wrong. Spear is actually the best to use vs. Foes who charge. The reason is the skill Determination. Determination gives you a free attack against any foe that moves beside you for 2 turns. It hits BEFORE the charge attack hits, and spears have high knockback chances.

I have seen foes heroic charge my spear user, get hit, knocked back, continue to charge, get hit and knocked back again, repeat 7-8 more times, then die, all in one action, without ever hitting me. (Warning, this was a few patches ago, they may have changed how it works, but you will still get the first hit on a charger when using determination, regardless of changes.)

2H sword and ranged are my picks for best Perma-death play, 2H Sword is a near invincible tank when built right. I have gone (in current patch) through T4 dungeons without taking any healing items at all. (I wouldn't risk that in perma-death, but it shows what it is capable of) Ranged can just shred things from outside foes attack area, and later, from outside their vision range completely.

[Psojed]

Originally posted by brown29knight:

I have seen foes heroic charge my spear user, get hit, knocked back, continue to charge, get hit and knocked back again, repeat 7-8 more times, then die, all in one action, without ever hitting me. (Warning, this was a few patches ago, they may have changed how it works, but you will still get the first hit on a charger when using determination, regardless of changes.)

That was a bug and it was fixed over a year ago (0.8.0.20).

[brown29knight]

Originally posted by Psojed:

Originally posted by brown29knight:

I have seen foes heroic charge my spear user, get hit, knocked back, continue to charge, get hit and knocked back again, repeat 7-8 more times, then die, all in one action, without ever hitting me. (Warning, this was a few patches ago, they may have changed how it works, but you will still get the first hit on a charger when using determination, regardless of changes.)

That was a bug and it was fixed over a year ago (0.8.0.20).

Cool to know it was fixed/changed. You still get the first hit, so my point still stands.

[funkmonster7]

Originally posted by brown29knight:

Originally posted by Psojed:

That was a bug and it was fixed over a year ago (0.8.0.20).

Cool to know it was fixed/changed. You still get the first hit, so my point still stands.

Fair enough. I did play spear but didn't get as far as Determination. However I think Determination is currently bugged; I was watching a YT video by okmall and he was fighting the Manticore, when he cast Determination it allowed him to hit the Manticore even though the Manticore was not advancing into the tile adjacent to Velmir himself.

I forgot to mention Ranged Weapons (bow/crossbow), oops. That weapon type is easily the most OP of all builds right now, lol.

I've found a fully kitted out Geomancer to wreck just about anything. Or at least my Geomancer anyway, who has a 7-tile attack range. But the most difficult enemies will always be the late-game crossbowmen, who hit ridiculously hard from over 10 tiles out. This is why I suggested OP to use a shield build of some kind. Being able to block the arrows actually helps a lot. Engaging in a shootout also works, but when fighting multiple enemies it tend to not do so well, especially out on the field. (In dungeons there are many ways to corner an enemy crossbowman.)

[brown29knight]

Easiest way to deal with a crossbowman with a geomancer is use a boulder to block his LoS

As far as I can tell, even those who have a piercing attack will not use it if they cannot see you.

[funkmonster7]

Originally posted by brown29knight:

Easiest way to deal with a crossbowman with a geomancer is use a boulder to block his LoS

As far as I can tell, even those who have a piercing attack will not use it if they cannot see you.

Indeed. But out on the field they won't come to you even if you block their LoS. They just walk around until they can see you, and still outside your range...

I don't have a problem with crossbowmen in dungeons. I also don't have a problem with them in forests... But I always have a problem with them on the open field, haha...

Sometimes I'm just on a map tile with very little bushes to hide behind.

[Tam_Soloveiko_Shebetav]

The safest start for me is Velmir with any 1-handed weapon and Buckler (Wooden Shield), Raise Shield talent, Seize the Initiative talent, War Cry talent and Brace for Impact talent. Then i'd go for 3 Survival talents (the healing ones), 3 Athletics talents (Dash and antistun for escape), and a lot of Warfare and Armored Combat talents.

Agility to cap the fumble chance, a bit of Perception and Velmir's passive to cap the accuracy, Medium armor (10-15 armor per piece) and the best protective accesories to maintain energy and survive. Ignore t4 dungeons and trolls (both small ones and the world boss) until you are super confident about your sustain and that's it for the current game state.

[Raremob]

survival talents in my opinion are overlooked. they are actually crazy good

[funkmonster7]

For permadeath melee builds, Arna >> Velmir > Jorgrim > Dirwin.

Yes, Survival skill tree is crazy good. But they're only that good once your core build is completed. Which is unfortunate... Because if you're using the best builds, you don't need Survival skill tree anymore when you completed your core build.

[Drewsko]

how can people use xbow without take aim skill? I miss every time since the base acc for a starter xbow is only 30%??

[funkmonster7]

Originally posted by Drewsko:

how can people use xbow without take aim skill? I miss every time since the base acc for a starter xbow is only 30%??

Starter xbow, yeah no taking aim sucks.

Late-game xbow, only has -25% accuracy, and bodkin bolts take care of that (+25% accuracy). With just some Perception or accuracy rings/necklace you can get to reasonable hit rate.

[Drewsko]

ah gotcha