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After troll killing and clearing all dungeons I can say only two tweaks I would make are:
-Save on exit - which is mechanic that will be in game so I'm glad devs agree. Otherwise the sleep-saving is pretty nice old-school mechanic.
-Ways to enlarge equipment. I mean - there is backpack, it even has sense that it 'works' only once it is worn in terms of mechanic but... the advantage is pretty smol. I imagine some ways to enlarge your equipment slots would be nice in future. You can make it happen without making game 'easier' as well - like donkey in Dungeon Siege which at times made more problems than it was worth if you did not knew how to use it. Same time maybe some quest involved or exorbitantly expensive bag of holding? As things stand now - I feel a tad iffy about leaving 4+ blue items and several 'valuables' because my inventory is full with probably (not sure before identification) better things despite going to dungeon with only skin of water and single sausage.
But yeah - it is not 'that hard'. It is doable and you just need to learn mechanics.
Basically there can be a lot of bad RNG.
For example i spend a few houres playing to clear out a dungeon. filled up with loot, quest completed.
Walked out, ambush.
Killed 3 guys rapidly with my bow. the Fourth was a dude with a dagger. and reached me.
Then he proceded to prock 8 bleed stacks on me in 1 hit. (Pure chance).
And sinds i was already low health... +8 bleed triggers i was borderline dead...
And unfortunatly my bandage was in... my backback... Opened my backpack and ... i died...
Also had times where i just had to redo a dungeon for like the 5th time because the last random dude would just kill me. Would just randomly miss 5 shots in a row.
Or god forgive... as a non magic character... bam a ghost... yeah thats a death sentence...
So the inability to save makes this very... tedious at some points.
My solution to this would be an item from a game i played in the past.
The amulet of lost from Tibia.
Basically its a necklace (equipment) that upon death makes you not lose your stuff/equipment. But, breaks after use. (and is hella expensive)
So an item like that could work in this game.
You have a necklace (so u sacrifice equipment and thus stats) for an item that upon death, teleports you outside of the dungeon, then breaks, and let it cost like 2k each. You will still need to retreat to town etc... but at least u didnt lose all the time u put into the game.
I think such a mechanic would solve most issues people have with the game.
That said, having no fail safe and just ruthless RNG can be quite exhilerating.
Love this game and hope to see more of it.
(And there are surprisingly few bugs imo)
First is that people for some reason feel rushed during their gameplay. They don't read the tutorials, they don't read item descriptions and skill descriptions, they don't explore the shops or the town, and they don't learn about their enemies.
I absolutely cannot comprehend why. This is a turn-based game. Even the weakest of all players can think about their next step for as long as they want, and as many times as they want. They should Inspect their foes, they should think about what they want to do several turns into the future, and they should think about what might happen in a worst case scenario. But ignoring all that, more commonly they should watch what is happening on their screen and learn from their mistakes. Making a mistake is never fatal, contrary to what some of the reviewers suggest.
Second is that modern games are becoming more and more "accomodating for casual gamers". This is a very broad term, but what I think is the most significant part is that games are implementing mechanics that allow the player to abuse a certain system to win without producing appropriate effort.
I believe that is why there are so many reviews and topics focused on saving the game. One of the most commonly abused systems is the save system. Just solved a puzzle? Save. Beat a tough fight? Save. You know a boss is coming next? Save. Is there a decision in the dialogue options? Save. And reload as many times as you need.
That in itself wouldn't be a problem really. The problem manifests only after these players start demanding this form of system abuse in the games they are playing.
Couple that with the fact that thanks to abusing of a certain system, the player perhaps never faced a scenario where critical thinking was required as a vital part of the gameplay. Players that never experienced anything like it will then naturally struggle with reaching the simplest goals - like beating the tutorial.
And then there is a category which has no explanation, like the guy who claims he died of thirst.
2 arms, 2 legs, 1 torso, 1 head.
Apart from that, this is a great example of where critical thinking could have saved you.
- What should I store in the backpack? Some loot I'll pawn to Bert? Or Bandages that I might need?
- Should I leave this fully cleared dungeon ASAP, or should I first rest and heal to full in case of bad RNG Ambush?
That kind of thinking. Basically "ask yourself if what you're doing is good" kind of thing :)
And like I said, even the current save mechanics are pretty alright. Almost every dungeon has a camp nearby, rewarding the player for exploring, and shortens the more tedious aspect of it (aka walking to the entrance, while getting into different fights and finding different gear is fun, especially when you get a super rare drop).
I read that review. Holy hell. I couldn't believe it was serious, yet it was. My one waterskin is giving me no problems what-so-ever. I can't imagine what they were doing to die of thirst at all.
This is what really made me want to play this game after watching a streamer play a few times. You need to be prepared, or you retreat. If you go from A to B there are things that may happen on the way: you need to either be prepared to deal with them or be prepared to detour. The return journey back to Osbrook is a whole third of each quest! Why shouldn't that be part of planning & preparation?
2 of my deaths have been from staying in a tile after knowing a boar or bear aggro'd within it. Both times I thought I was being smart by circling around them. I overestimated myself both times. Is it the game's fault? Should those wildlife be nerfed? "OMG LET ME CIRCLE AROUND THIS HUGE BEAR!!!!". Or do I accept that if I'm leaving a settlement I am in the wild myself & should remain conscious of the quickest way to leave the tile if I find I need to? It's my responsiblity to not overstay my welcome on a tile that has a deadly danger within it.
Every death I've had I don't respond with "OMG how BS F this game!!!". I identify what I did wrong. What didn't I consider? Was it something new? Was it something I've mistook before & should had known better? Realising I just identified something to do better next time is what dopamine is made of. That "Ahhhh, I see!' moment is something those hand-holding "RPGs" that point you to the EXACT BOX the quest item is in doesn't allow you to have. Can't let the player have the satisfaction of searching & finding it themselves, right?
There is no shame in running away in a game like this. You can return once you have prepared again, & next time you will have more knowledge to prepare with...
This exactly. The game is really fun when you figure out a fun strategy or get jumped by three people and win. It makes the whole game feel super fun to walk through when you're strong enough to kill anything that isn't a bear (unless you get abilities to make bleed stacks early), and you can even save in a camp that's a little closer to osbrook if you explore. It turns the save system from something that could be detrimental to strategy into a genuine reward for putting time into the game and makes every encounter way more exhilarating.
(there is a thread somewhere here about dude returning the game because tutorial boss was too hard, and while he was indicated he had to dodge an attack, he didn't because thats ''bad game design'')
I like to think of them karens and kens of gaming industry, and I pity devs for having to put up with them, especially in recent abundance of such elements
Anyway, the game is great, but I'm waiting for new patch to actually replay it now, a little too little content for now to be replaying the game every single update for my taste.
A lot of people are just... dumb. Saying that might be rude - but it is how it is.
The reason I personally gave the game a negative review was due to the fact that the games seems to lack direction in what it wants to be in terms of gameplay difficulty and type.
My review boiled down to 'the game doesn't seem to have consistency and is a series of statchecks with random RNG statchecks that will ruin your permadeath run.'
In terms of non-perma, this game isn't hard because it has infinite tries. Same with darksouls, hit the wall with your head enough and everything aligns in your concussed brain eventually.
The problem I have comparing this game to other difficult games, (T.O.M.E Dungeons of dredmor on harder difficulties, or just things like wasteland 3) Whilst the last one is an rpg, I'll try to stick to roguelike comparisons.
The game focuses on dropping random loot and giving you random gear sold into the shops. This is perfectly fine, but can be tedious if you don't save scum. As things like chain belts, soldier belts, t2 weapons and etc, don't really 'drop' unless you're on the second bandit dungeon.
This is a minor point, but getting to the main problem I have, is the identity of the game and its playstyle.
'You aren't a hero, you aren't a legend. You're a mercenary.'
I love this mindset, and when I run DND or tabletop games in general, i pitch this heavily towards my players.
However, in this game it comes off as a bit stupid to claim that as their design choice.
One mercenary is meant to fight off 10+ bandits in a fort and then kill their extremely talented leader in what is often 2v1 combat? Then go fight off a necromancer who's raised a royal crypt?
And fight a troll by themselves that fought a well armed and armored guard force?
This seems to promote that the main protagonist in the form of our character, is way way more talented than that of even a three or four man party of good soldiers.
Yet, in the beginning of the game, you can fight a wolf and potentially die because of bad RNG, you can fight two bandits at once with good gear, and potentially get rnged.
'you shouldn't fight more than one enemy at a time! you should use traps and crossbows/bows and consumables to get an advantage!'
This makes the game seem more geared towards a tactical harsh rpg combat system that relies on outsmarting the enemy. However, you only need to outsmart and use traps when it's the case of either,
A mismatch fight (Greatsword bandit vs a dodge build.)
A bad situation. (Say, four or five bandits and you aren't Arna and stacking defense.)
Your numbers aren't large enough to just win the fight with your skills. (Combat skills and techniques, not 'gamer' skills.)
When I can actually confidently enter a dungeon that I've well prepared for and not be potentially murdered by getting crit, getting an injured head, and then incurring bleeding, and dying to one random no name bandit off of pure RNG, I'll feel contented.
A lot of people really hate RNG, it's par for the course of this style of game, and I don't mind RNG, but RNG mitigation should be present enough in terms of strategy and decision making that it isn't a run killer (permadeath gang.)
And yes, traps and crossbow poking are strategy that allows the player to mitigate RNG, if they step in a claw trap you can shoot them with a crossbow four times and they probably die.
Why is my dual wielding axe barbarian forced into this specific niche the entire game if I don't want them to die? Strategy should be opened up so that every playstyle can do the entirety of the content in the game without it being way more difficult. Comparing swords to axes and maces, you have a way easier time against bandits, but a harder time against undead. Shields generally make the game way easier, but that's just number-checking and voids strategy by making you tanky.
TL;DR I will probably change my review when they add in more diversity to strategy and gameplay options for a consistently successful character. The game has a hard time deciding if it's an rpg that's rough on you and doesn't hold your hand, or a tactical strategy game that uses intense numbers on enemies because it wants to make decision making matter.
Note: This is an opinion, I still enjoy the game, so don't presume I'm a casual and hate difficult games. Kinda why I stopped trying to post and give opinions and POV on a lot of this discussion board.
I think the difficulty curve (and the meaning of the mercenary line) is to illustrate what the early game is like. You can barely take on anything past one or two people at a time and unless you're making liberal use of healing items, strategy and resting, you're going to have to smash your head against the wall harder and harder for much longer.
The troll fight is meant to be something nearly impossible unless you've become a full-fledged hero within both towns. While it *is* possible to use a level one pyro to beat the troll (assuming you know what you're doing), the game is clearly not designed to have that in mind. And that said, I do see your point with the whole Legendary reputation being relatively easy to obtain and feeling kinda weird with how the game styles itself.
And I'd argue that the farther you get into the game with more equipment, the more fun it is to style on one or two impoverished bandits. It feels super fun to go from having to run and dodge every fight possible to easily demolishing an entire band of raiders in a handful of turns. And even then, I've noticed that walking between towns as a level 11 pyromancer makes ambushes happen much more often and with as much as five guys at a time (typically with one or two being bowmen, which is painful to deal with for my build).
Also, for me personally, I never really noticed the RNG because my build is specifically meant to counter most melee attacks (meteor strike with fire barrage and the laser for kiting people through doorways), and I feel like that, for me, is fun RNG mitigation. Once my character gets rolling, I can practically avoid most melee confrontations and always have powerful spells to counteract any (circle of fire is OP once you get a ton of magical power).
I'd also argue that only focusing on one or two skill trees without at least trying a handful of other abilities for other situations is part of the mitigation problem. For example, I'm having an incredibly tough time with the troll slaying quest a second time around because I didn't try to get dash and focused solely on pyromancy.
That said, I completely get your point and I do agree that RNG sucks, but I can still see a ton of ways to strategize around certain obstacles besides just using shields and/or traps.
Yeah, the devs have said that permadeath is not intended anymore as the way it's going to be designed. So that is just how I personally play the game, no disagreement about that. It just shows flaws in design that are heavily influenced by the game's combat.
Eh, the early game is actually really easy. It's mainly that RNG is far more prevalent in the early game due to a lack of items and skills. Defensive stance is pretty broken early game, and so is seize initiative. If you play Arna you especially have a really easy time fighting up to even 3 normie level 1 bandits.
Wolves, or higher tier mobs (even just level 3 bandits such as axe and greatsword ones.) Are pretty rough, even as Arna with defensive stance. Only if you fight multiple at a time.
A thing to consider though, the RNG is up to whether you hit (You have a base 85% accuracy I believe? + per bonus, + gear or skill bonuses.) So, the thing to think about there is, you can miss 15% of the time, fumble 10% or so of the time, and the enemy can dodge about 4 % of the time.
Stacking this on top of even a 2% crit chance from enemies, provides a really bad place for the combat to sit.
When the skills i can grab are 'hit hard and do lots of damage.' or 'use defensive stats' or 'hit hard and injure' and none besides shield, or geomancy rock armor really allow me to mitigate problematic occurrences... it does devolve to traps and bows. (Or crossbows more aptly.)
Magic is rough for... one level. When you get more than one pyromancy spell, you can cast fireblast, kite, cast again, and either melee, or cast it again... or just use the 8 ring aoe that nukes.
Geomancy? I haven't played through a run with it, Personally I don't think geomancy seems fun. Might try it eventually though.
The presence of fleawort, cheap healing items, alcohol, and some other options for early viability do allow you to fight three thugs or even enforcers without problem. Fighting an archer, pitchfork guy, and club guy would potentially be lethal, but is entirely possible.
Eh, you can just kill it at level one with daggers and dual wielding axes too. I think I saw a post somewhere where somebody did it with swords as well. It's abusing hornet honey and such, but still, it's entirely possible.
Taking only 2 damage from the troll, but being bled 20 times throughout the fight and slowly attrition to death despite bandages and elixirs of healing... feels less like i'm 'not good enough as a warrior' and more that it's poorly designed and way easier for certain builds.
To clarify, calling a complete lack of a way for the enemy to come and hit you because you block off a doorway and the AI deems it better to sit and be murdered over 10 turns whilst blocked off, instead of charging and potentially killing your character, doesn't come off as RNG mitigation. It comes out as a direct flaw in design. Comparing pyromancy to melee and saying you've 'mitigated' RNG whilst playing something that doesn't even really rely on RNG besides fumble and crit... is fairly poor as a counterpoint.
Though, I doubt you're trying to prove me wrong, just giving your opinion. I'm just saying why it doesn't convince me personally, hope you take no offense, as none is meant.
Eh, you can use two skill trees consistently. combat mastery, and your weapon tree. You can also use athletics if you want dash, and sometimes just for the kick, but in a lot of cases it's kind of just a crutch in early to grab kick. Though it's entirely useful.
I use two skilltrees every run, and sometimes break minorly into a third, rarely is that third not athletics. (the occasional dual wielding as well.)
RNG does suck, and yes you can mitigate RNG in other ways, but it's quite a tedious way of doing so.
- Fire damage can be solved by ruby silver rings and a ruby amulet enchanted with nature/fire resist for a 20ish % reduction.
- Defensive stance and a good necklace (phylactery, hand amulet, etc.) As well as an equisite cowl, can mitigate the problem with magic damage.
You can still wear moderate mid armor gear to reduce physical by about 35% on top of whatever you have otherwise. Defensive stance and hand amulet or jousting cloak etc can also heavily increase survivability.
However, this is RNG mitigation by statchecking, and not by combat strategy or skill use (beyond defensive stance.)
A movement skill being more prevalent (I.E imagine a one step non turn ending movement ability with a decent cooldown and energy cost, that decreases after killing enemies.) Would heavily alleviate a lot of problems for me. Mostly because it opens up a lot more safety as a melee character.
A disarming skill, a skill to reduce accuracy by throwing up sand, dirt, rubble etc. All of these would be very minor work to introduce, (Barring a disarm skill, as it'd employ them to likely give the enemy an unarmed weapon state, so a bit more work, but still not much.)
These types of things would mitigate RNG, and be done by allowing the character a choice of how to play out the combat, not what to wear and carry beforehand.
( as a note, T.O.M.E provides health and armor skills off the bat, weapon accuracy/damage skills off the bat, and their stat system increases saves, dodge chance, or damage/health respectively. This lends to a feeling of 'damn, the wizard got me because of my low mental save due to low will.' Instead of you just not having prepared yourself with the 2000 crown enchanted alternative gear pieces chosen for crypt dungeons. This is what I'm trying to get at here.)
Other options for mitigation would include.
-A fire proof laquer or balm to put on shields/armors for a temporary resistance to fire. (Could also use other consumables for other elements later, such as a conductive liquid that would prevent it from conducting through metal armor, but on a piece of leather or cloth instead.)
- Splashing water on oneself to minorly reduce upcoming fire damage.
- other various traps that don't take up huge inventory spaces, and can be used without extreme setup times or don't need broken line of sight for higher effectiveness.
Just a few ideas for off the top of my head design.
Oh, and a last pet peeve.
Enemies get higher base stats than the player, like... a lot.
Look at the brigands stat blocks on the wiki. Some have 100% accuracy with moderate prot, no negative dodge chance, and also have block chance. (With 110+ Hp... meaning they have at least 15 vitality, except they don't, they just have a higher base.)
Bloating health pools and making stats higher than the player can reasonably get them at the level they face said enemy is completely ridiculous. The enemies aren't designed to 1v1 the player effectively, but they ignore the predetermined base statblock of our character.
Again, I really do like the game, but these are noticeable design hiccups that detract from it being a loved game instead of a liked one.
It's no wonder you think the game is inconsistent. You're looking for something that isn't there, and never should be. You can never enter a dungeon of an adequate level and be confident that you won't potentially get killed.
Sorry, but you're wrong. "Your numbers" are quite enough.
You don't need to outsmart any enemy. And as you later mentioned about your axe barbarian, you can play the bruteforce way too.
It will obviously require more healing of wounds, but that's also what the preparation is about. Not about using different weapons or special tools for a dangerous enemy, but also about having tools that help you mitigate damage and recuperate from a fight. Ever tried getting drunk? It reduces damage taken :)
I'm not sure what were you doing during those 200+ hours of gameplay.
Firstly, there's very little RNG.
Enemies always react consistently, they use skills in a certain order, they all move a certain way. They also consistently drop their weapons. The Tutorial boss fight and the Troll boss fight are prime examples of consistency in combat. Using a strategy to win is the standard way to fight, it is already there and it works.
And in terms of gear, there is a very limited set of items that you can only find in the dungeons. Your gear will come from shops, and that's not RNG.